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Peppergal
Posts: 2207 Joined: 9/20/2002 Status: offline
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DreamHost and FrontPage - 12/4/2002 12:09:30
Hi All, Do any of you have a server that claims to have Front Page extensions, yet tells you stuff like this: quote:
Peppergal:I would like Front Page Server Exensions added to my Sweet Dreams account. Dreamhost: Sure, we can do that, but first we have to make sure you understand what this means: 1) There will be upwards of four days after we move the domain where you will not be able to update your site. Until your ISPs DNS servers update it will stay in its current state. <<FOUR DAYS!! GASP~Pepper>> 2) You won' t be able to use any tools other than Frontpage to publish. FTP will not work for the domain. <<okay, that' s fine with me>> 3) You will not be able to use CGI at all. <<Say WHAT?>> 4) You will not be able to use FrontPage email forms. We have a free form mail script that you may use instead.<<What the heck is this nonsense? I thought that' s what enabling FP Extensions was all about???>> I' ve written them asking why this is. I think it' s nuts. Here is their response: quote:
Hello <Pepper>, I can answer most of your questions about FrontPage, but what you have to keep in mind is that, to a certain extent, our hands our tied because all we get is a binary from Microsoft. We are limited to what it can do. And it seems to often not work. Frontpage is correctly configured to use sendmail. It simply doesn' t work. We invested quite a bit of time into the problem and got nowehere, but I assure you we' ve looked into it thoroughly. MS is no help. Pepper wrote: Other webhosts (tripod; netfirms) have enabled FP extensions for me in one day. Why do you take four? I must say that it isn' t very convenient! I have people waiting to see their website and they certainly want to see it NOW, not in four days. Dreamhost: Frontpage Extensions run as part of the webserver (Apache). We don' t have the Frontpage Extensions compiled into all the copies of Apache on our machines. Each machine has a separate copy dedicated to hosting FrontPage domains. When we enable them, we start pointing DNS for your domain to the FrontPage-enabled copy of Apache. We configure your domain on both your old, plain Apache, and on the new, FP Apache. While DNS propagates, a browser will hit either one. We can' t control the speed of DNS propgation. Slower ISPs (especially AOL) can take up to four days. While the old DNS info is out there, both webservers will have to be configured. You will probably be able to update the site in a day or two, but we say four days because, well, sometimes it takes four days. Pepper: So, everytime I create a website and list a new domain for someone, I will have to wait FOUR DAYS (on top of the 24 hours for the domain to take effect) before the extensions are enabled? That seems to be a really LONG time. Dreamhost: Yes. > I could FTP it, naturally...but I understand my custom form, which took me a *lot* of time to create and perfect, WON' T WORK WITH OR WITHOUT THE EXTENSIONS. IF THAT is the case, you should have that stated clearly on your Front Page help page and I would NOT have gone with you guys. (I understood the text on the page to mean that you couldn' t use the FP forms UNLESS you have server extensions, which makes sense) So...needless to say, I' m a little aggravated here. I really like what you offer...BUT I don' t want to use your form script. I like the FP one (that' s why I paid so much money for the FP software--to USE its features!!! I thought that once all the extensions were enabled on a host, then all the features are able to be used!) I spent a LOT OF TIME getting these forms to client specifications. I do not want to create new ones with an unfamiliar script!!! Dreamhost: I will update those KBase articles to be more clear. I' m sorry for the trouble. If you' d like, write back and you can have a full refund under our 30 day guarantee (make sure to mention it when asking to have your account closed). Needless to say, I asked have my money back. Has anyone else come across this, with a host that claims to FULLY SUPPORT MS FrontPage????? I' m very aggravated because I have a client who wants to see her site NOW and she wants me to teach her how to update it with her own version of FP. Now she' ll have to wait until I get the money refunded and sign up with someone else...GRRR, I' m so angry I could spit. Their help files (their so-called KnowlegeBase) were very misleading, in that they led me to believe that once I had Extensions put on--never stating that it would take four stinking days--that all of my webbot components would work. I know some hosts like Verio won' t allow the discussion web components to work because of security vulnerabilities...but this seems to be ridiculous to me. Or am I overreacting here?
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Northeast PA / Poconos/ Lake Wallenpaupack Real Estate wallenpaupacklakeproperty.com Karen's Real Estate Blog
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Gil
Posts: 7533 From: North Carolina, USA Status: offline
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RE: DreamHost and FrontPage - 12/4/2002 12:33:52
quote:
Or am I overreacting here? Not at all quote:
Dreamhost: Frontpage Extensions run as part of the webserver (Apache). We don' t have the Frontpage Extensions compiled into all the copies of Apache on our machines. Each machine has a separate copy dedicated to hosting FrontPage domains. Huh? Makes no sense at all quote:
I can answer most of your questions about FrontPage, but what you have to keep in mind is that, to a certain extent, our hands our tied because all we get is a binary from Microsoft. We are limited to what it can do. Only correct thing they say The reason people like " Open Source sofware, you can modify it to meet your needs. quote:
And it seems to often not work. I think " often" is a bit much... quote:
Frontpage is correctly configured to use sendmail. It simply doesn' t work. BULL!!!! quote:
You will probably be able to update the site in a day or two, but we say four days because, well, sometimes it takes four days. I " have" seen it take 3 or 4 days, but normal is about 24 hours. quote:
We can' t control the speed of DNS propgation. Slower ISPs (especially AOL) can take up to four days. While the old DNS info is out there, both webservers will have to be configured. True quote:
Pepper: So, everytime I create a website and list a new domain for someone, I will have to wait FOUR DAYS (on top of the 24 hours for the domain to take effect) before the extensions are enabled? Pepper, he isn' t saying 4 days for the extensions to work - up to 4 days for the DNS to propagate. Really, should be 24 - 48 hours. quote:
Dreamhost: I will update those KBase articles to be more clear. I' m sorry for the trouble. Nice of him
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Gil Harvey, 1947-2004
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caywind
Posts: 1479 From: USA Status: offline
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RE: DreamHost and FrontPage - 12/4/2002 17:16:15
Sounds like " NightmareHost" to me. One clarification: If you specify the host service' s DNS server names when you buy the domain name, and then set up the account with the host, you should be able to begin publishing almost immediately. At least I can with thehostfactory. The others are usually still only a matter of hours, not days. It is when you change or transfer DNS servers that it may take 4 days, and like Gil says it' e more like 24-48 hours. If you want to use FrontPage, you should really go with a host that knows the FP Extensions and can support them well. Gil is trying not to plug thehostfactory, so I' ll do it for him. Check it out. www.thehostfactory.net P.S. regardless of DNS changes, you should still be able to access the site via IP address....
< Message edited by caywind -- 12/4/2002 5:17:45 PM >
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Peppergal
Posts: 2207 Joined: 9/20/2002 Status: offline
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RE: DreamHost and FrontPage - 12/4/2002 18:56:08
That is my next stop. As soon as I get my money refunded from Dreamhost, and I receive payment from another client for hosting, I' m opening up a Reseller' s account at Host Factory. The cost was prohibiting me before, because I didn' t have enough money to pay for it. Now however, I do, and I also have three domains to put there so I can waive the $20 set up fee for each of the domains.
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Northeast PA / Poconos/ Lake Wallenpaupack Real Estate wallenpaupacklakeproperty.com Karen's Real Estate Blog
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Peppergal
Posts: 2207 Joined: 9/20/2002 Status: offline
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RE: DreamHost and FrontPage - 12/4/2002 23:10:06
Well, I asked them for a refund, and they said they' d give me a full refund, minus the $25 for a domain registration (that was included FREE in the hosting package.) I feel that considering the fact that they misled me regarding FP support, that they should refund me the entire amount. Had I known that my FP webbots would not be fully supported I would never have signed up with these clowns. Here is an email I want to send to them in response...am I being unreasonable here? I don' t want to sound foolish, but I really want that $25 back! quote:
Thank you...although your $25 dollar fee seems REALLY stiff for domain registrations...many places sell domain registrations for under $10. But anyhow.... (the capitals below are not shouting; but rather for emphasis) I really resent the fact that your KBase information on FrontPage was MISLEADING. Had I KNOWN that you did NOT FULLY SUPPORT FrontPage as your KBase LED ME TO BELIEVE (and actually stated.." Dreamhost now fully supports FrontPage Extensions!" ), I would NEVER have signed up for an account, much less register a domain for such a high price. Perhaps you will reconsider the $25 fee. I can see something like $10, but given the fact that your pages WERE MISLEADING and INCORRECT, I think charging me $25 for something that is ultimately *YOUR MISTAKE* is a little harsh. I know your 30_day Guarantee states that the $25 is non-refundable...but given the circumstances here... You also neglected to state on the KBase regarding FP Extensions that I' d " lose all CGI capabilities." (something which I still fail to understand anyway...I haven' t lost CGI with my Netfirms, Tripod, or Verio...really weird!) You clearly misrepresented yourselves here. I did not find ANY of this stuff out until AFTER I signed up and requested FP Extensions. There is probably something legally wrong with this! (bait and switch??? I' m sure the Better Business Bureau would be able to counsel me here) Frankly, you should give me a COMPLETE refund. I' ve saved screenshots of the two pages I quoted in an earlier email, showing how you misrepresented yourselves and misled me regarding FrontPage. I looked at my card' s account online and have yet to see a credit for the refund. Hopefully it will be there on Thursday...and possibly you will reconsider the $25 domain registration fee. It' s the least you can do considering how far behind you have put me with my client due to the inaccurate information posted on your Knowledge Base. I know for a fact that it didn' t cost you that much, unless you register through Verisign. Try GoDaddy.com..they' re much cheaper. Regards,
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Northeast PA / Poconos/ Lake Wallenpaupack Real Estate wallenpaupacklakeproperty.com Karen's Real Estate Blog
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storm
Posts: 421 Status: offline
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RE: DreamHost and FrontPage - 12/5/2002 6:27:55
Just a note about FP extensions and CGI. First, I' m not a fan of FP server extensions and I stopped using them quite some time ago. But when I was using them I was also using CGI based programs and the trick for making FP extensions and CGI to coexist is this: make a directory OUTSIDE of the root web (get the CGI as far away from FP as you can) then map a virtual directory to the CGI directory and your CGI stuff will work with no problems at all. And do not use FP to publish to the CGI directory. If you have new /updated scripts ftp them to that directory.
< Message edited by storm -- 12/5/2002 6:28:38 AM >
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storm..." Someone put forth the proposition that you can petition the lord with prayer, petition the lord with prayer, petition the lord with prayer...YOU CANNOT PETITION THE LORD WITH PRAYER"
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