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Helene
Posts: 213
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From: a small island in Canada eh?
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Is someone out of line here? - 2/16/2003 11:02:46
Outfronters, I hope you can help me get some perspective on a web business issue that recently affected me rather negatively.... [:j]
Last week one of my clients, unbeknownst to me, gave permission to a web marketer/promoter to access her site. Without my knowledge or suspicion, he went in and worked on the site, making changes to the code, creating new pages, and altering the layout somewhat.
At the same time, the client had asked me to make some changes to her site. I did so, working on my local copy, and publishing up to the server as usual. Of course, I wiped out the other guy' s changes, as I didn' t even know he had been in the site. It was only after the fact, when I had trouble publishing, that I noticed some new files sitting on the server.
Now. I' ve always insisted on being the sole author of any site that I work on as long as the client is working with me. I learned from experience long ago that when more than one person have access to a site, problem can and will arise. (Usually, if someone else needs to go into one of my sites I withdraw my name from the access registry for that time period so that I am not liable for any complications that may arise.) I don' t specify this to all clients (okay, okay, Seventh, I can hear you now.. " contracts, contracts..." ) as it was never necessary in the past.
The associated problems that arose from this I can deal with. What bugs me is that another so-called " professional" would go in and start changing a site without clearing it with the web manager first. Personally, I would never do such a thing. I respect other people' s work, and I respect the client/webmaster business relationship. I would ask the client if there was clearance, and I would contact the other developer and confirm the client' s requests and the nature of the tasks involved etc.
Am I out of line here? Is the other guy? I know I blew it by not stipulating to the client not to give access to others without informing me, but I feel the other guy, the " professional marketer/promoter" acted very unprofessionally. It feels like he went behind my back to get work from one of my clients without realizing there would be repercussions. I don' t mind him doing the marketing at all; I do mind his brash invasion of another web manager' s site.
The client is very upset and absolves herself from any responsibility (she doesn' t want to pay for the marketer to re-do his work). Fair enough, even though she could have mentioned to me that she was having another guy work on the site.... Soooo, any comments from the Of peanut gallery would be most appreciated, no holds barred.
Thanks -
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Helene M.
websitemanagement.ca
Personal Site:
Best of Salt Spring Online
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Mojo
Posts: 2431
From: Chicago
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RE: Is someone out of line here? - 2/16/2003 11:37:14
Contracts / communication.
My opinion--
You don' t know what the client told the invading marketer. The invader is just trying to make a buck - like we all are. So, if the client made it sound like no big deal then why should the invader go asking questions they may result in him/her *not* getting the work.
It sounds like, the client should have said something to you before proceeding, the invader should have asked some tough questions and you should have informed the client to run all things past you.
It does not appear to me (from the info given) that one is any worse than the other.
I am sorry this has happened. At least we *all* can learn from this.
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Helene
Posts: 213
Joined: 9/17/2002
From: a small island in Canada eh?
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RE: Is someone out of line here? - 2/16/2003 12:58:30
Thanks Jo, I agree with everything you said.
I live and work in a small community with a strong base of local clientele and some global clients. All my business has come from word-of-mouth and I' ve never needed to advertise. This " invader" has just moved into the community and is marketing aggressively to my clients. There' s plenty of business for all, so I' m not at all worried about that... I' m just not used to dealing with this kind of thing. I wonder, is this kind of ' invading' or ' client poaching' common? Have I been living in la-la land? I guess so...
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Helene M.
websitemanagement.ca
Personal Site:
Best of Salt Spring Online
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abbeyvet
Posts: 5095
From: Kilkenny Ireland
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RE: Is someone out of line here? - 2/16/2003 15:03:24
I think it is a small bit harsh to speak of the other person as an ' invader' . To me the bottom line is that once they have paid for it the site is the client' s, and they have the right to have anyone work on it as and when they wish. Looking at it from a client perspective, I would find anything else hard to stomach.
Having said that what happened is, in my opinion, entirely the client' s fault, even if it happened because they were unaware of the potential for conflict when more than one person is working on a site.
It is possible that the other person kept a local copy, and likely that there is a backup at the host end that can be restored. But restoring it is, IMHO, a matter for the client to pay for and hopefully to learn from.
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Katherine
:: InKK Design :: InKK Domains
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Helene
Posts: 213
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From: a small island in Canada eh?
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RE: Is someone out of line here? - 2/16/2003 21:56:10
Thanks Katherine, your points are well taken. There never was any question in my mind that the site belongs to the client and the client can do ' anything' he/she wants with it. I' ve always respected that and made that point clear to my clients. I just don' t think the promoter respected any one else much.
In this case, the promoter who worked on the site worked directly on the server and did not have any backups... which puts the site' s integrity in even greater jeopardy, in my opinion. I hadn' t considered this until you mentioned it, and it gives me even more cause to question his workmanship.
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Helene M.
websitemanagement.ca
Personal Site:
Best of Salt Spring Online
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moose
Posts: 200
Joined: 4/6/2002
From: Plumpton NSW Australia
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RE: Is someone out of line here? - 2/17/2003 0:00:45
Helene,
I am inclined to agree with Katherine. It is a situation that is entirely the client' s fault, whether or not they realised the implications of it or not.
I have been in the very same situation. A client had a ' friend' update his web site, and make a fair few changes, and at the same time had us make some changes. The result of course was catastrophic, as we uploaded over the top of the other person' s changes. At no point did the client advise us he was letting someone else edit the site, and as a result, the consequences occured.
The ' friend' came along and said he would update the site for nothing (but not change its layout or anything, so the design is still what we created), and of course we charge for maintenance. So the client let him do it.
However, the first thing he did was delete our logo and copyright from the bottom of the site (which fired me up - because he slapped his name all over the bottom of it - but the design was ours).
His logo is no longer there (after I spat it big time at the client  ), but his name appears on the site as its maintainer (is that a word  ), while the words ' Original design and development by Wild Purple' and a link back to our site now appear there as well. In the end, a working compromise on a site we had spent many weeks designing, with a design that to this day remains what we created.
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L8R,
Moose
http://www.wildpurple.com.au
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Seventh
Posts: 1235
Joined: 8/4/2002
From: The Motor City
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RE: Is someone out of line here? - 2/17/2003 0:41:12
quote:
(okay, okay, Seventh, I can hear you now.. " contracts, contracts..." )
Hahahahahaha...well, I guess I don' t need to say much...but you added ' no holds barred' , so what the hell.[:j]
1. Yes, a contract would have been a good thing (maybe a great thing in this case).
2. As Karen stated, after the work is done (and paid for ), it' s the client' s site to do with as they please. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. So no, they don' t have to tell you that someone else is coming in to do some work, but they should have an understanding that if that person screws up something that it is going to cost them for YOU to fix it - no ifs, ands, or buts about that either.
3. Live and learn. Some people do fine with or without contracts. I just prefer with.
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