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stu
Posts: 120
From: doylestown,pa
Status: offline
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Pricing - 3/24/2003 19:00:58
The subject of what to charge for a web site continues to be a controversial subject. I’ve read many of the posts on these forums and learned a lot, but I still have a lot of uncertainties. What I’m looking for here is some estimates by you outfront pros (or non pros, or pro wannabes) as to what you would charge to do this, or a similar site:
www.philyturf.com
It’s a very straightforward site, using a frame, a bunch of external links, and one form used for customer ordering – under the Parts button. The owner is happy with the site so changing it is not a concern. I’m looking for something to use as a benchmark for pricing.
What do you think?
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barry
Posts: 742
Joined: 6/26/2002
From: Baltimore, MD
Status: offline
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RE: Pricing - 3/25/2003 9:28:46
Stu,
I have a few ideas that may help you establish a clear cash flow stream from this client.
I see all of the external links and many of them have shopping carts on them. Is the clients a VAR (value added reseller) or do the inventory any of the products. If a customer simply ordered direct will they get credit? How will they know?
Is the site primarily for clients to research parts and equipment then call? I did not see an order page. if I wanted to buy something for my 40 acre golf course or my 120 schools in my county what would i do?
What functionality would really help PTC to a) make more money b) service clients better? A web wish list You could look at some of the " Big Boys" in the industry.
Is your client happy with the business the site generates?
All of the above questions are " portals" to ongoing business for you. then you could develop a 6 month web plan that would build toward the ultimate goal.
I would offer the client at least the following 3 options:
client data base collection - with 75 years in business they should be able to send emails to all of their customers with specials from some of their manufacture, ie volume discount, end of season savings on overstock, used equipment etc.
Redoing/adding more pages about PTC and how they can benefit from the 75 years in business.
Finish and promote the used equipment page! Everybody is cutting cost, and everybody wants/needs new toys. PTC could be the regional e-bay for dirt, tractors, pipe.............. Guest who would manage it, you
The worst case is after presenting this information to them they still say that they only want the site redesigned as is, I would charge them $800 bucks.
Then I would go talk to their competitors !!! The proposal is already done!!
Sorry to ramble
Barry
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barry
Posts: 742
Joined: 6/26/2002
From: Baltimore, MD
Status: offline
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RE: Pricing - 3/25/2003 14:51:55
Linda,
Yup thats what Stu asked, the natural way my mind works is to get the client to think about this as more then a 1 time purchase but an ongoing partnership.
Then the whole pricing issue changes dramatically.
Barry
< Message edited by barry -- 3/25/2003 2:53 PM >
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stu
Posts: 120
From: doylestown,pa
Status: offline
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RE: Pricing - 3/25/2003 18:49:11
Barry, if what you were doing was rambling, then it was quality rambling, and I appreciate your ideas. The Used Equipment page, and using e-mail for promotion are things we plan to pursue. But as Linda suggested, my goal here is to get an idea of what other Outfronters would charge for that or a similar site. So your $800 comment was meaningful.
Anyone else have any numbers? How about a rough ballpark. Is it in the $500 range, $1000, $1500 ??
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barry
Posts: 742
Joined: 6/26/2002
From: Baltimore, MD
Status: offline
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RE: Pricing - 3/26/2003 4:55:03
Stu,
Any of those figures are reasonable and could even be on the low end if one of the big boys were doing the same work.
Go for the highest fair price and wrap some of the other stuff you had mentioned.
Barry
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xeerex
Posts: 77
Joined: 5/9/2002
From: Texas
Status: offline
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RE: Pricing - 4/4/2003 10:44:10
Hi Stu,
First let me say that I am not an expert compared to many here. Recently, I have decided to make a big push to my web design business though and have spent much time researching here and other places.
I' ve struggled with the same questions (and virtually no good answers) you are asking so here is my take on the subject after much debate. Many of the web " masters" here are reluctant to quote prices depending on whether they are a " big boy" or not. References have been made as to whether a home-based web design company is reliable long-term and that there are great differences in overhead..yadda..yadda..yadda. The simple truth is that whether you are a home-based design company or have a staff of 100 developers you still have to quote sites for clients. Its not rocket science. " I am a client and want a webiste with a, b, and c on it. What will you charge?"
The matter of long-term stability is irrelevant since the largest corporations can go bankrupt just as easily as the smallest mom and pops. That is part of the risk in a free-enterprise system. If I paid someone to perform a service and they did it, then hopefully they would remain in business long-term. If not, then I would find another service provider.
A lot of the clients I try to target are small business shops generally know how to surf the internet, check email, and occassionally have bought something online. They don' t know specifics about design, hosting, trafficking, etc. What they want to know is how much will a site like yadda.com cost for my business. They want to know what a " basic" package is so I post a couple of them on my site and in my literature. I always remind the client though that websites can become very very individualized.
The philyturf.com site looks like about 7-10 very simple pages as a quick count. That would put it in my advertised " Basic Business Package" , which is right now priced at $550. However, my pricing is about to be revised upward as my skills increase and I revamp my website and fledgling business. That package includes a year of hosting and domain registration. If I were to quote the philyturf.com site, I would say $650 as is with some minor aesthetic improvements.
Want to know how I came up with that figure? I have devised a plan for quoting sites that works for me. I sit down and look at all aspects of the site. Will I need to design graphics or do the layout or add content, etc? Then I try to develop a time frame that I think it will take me from start to finish and add a little for error since I know that I always think I can do something faster than than reality allows. I multiply that factor x $65/hour and presto. If there are other issues like e-commerce and store-fronts, I have base charges for those and customization is quoted as just explained.
In the case of the philyturf.com site, if were to do the exact same site using the exact same graphics, it could be done in a matter of hours. However, after looking at it, I would require some minor mod' s to the left frame and link highlights etc, which would add time. In the end I feel I could do a comparable site that is improved moderately in 10 hours including contact with the client.
Now some may quote higher and some may quote lower. My $65/hour may seem too high for some and too low for others. That is why there is competition in the marketplace. You will have to decide what your bottom line rates are based on your own expenses and overhead and such and develop your own rates.
Hope my post helps you and answers your question somewhat.
_____________________________
Webmaster in Perpetual Training
Xeerex The Wizard
aka Rex Moncrief
Web Design / Web Hosting / Graphics / eCommerce
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stu
Posts: 120
From: doylestown,pa
Status: offline
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RE: Pricing - 4/5/2003 12:29:08
xeerex,
Thanks for your direct answer to my question. As it turns out, your thinking and mine are very similiar. Your $650 number is right there with mine, altough I used some different rationale to arrive at it.
My take from reading posts on this forum (by far the most helpful) and other internet resources, is that there are at least 2 distinct levels for arriving at a price to a client:
First, there are what I think of as the fundamentals. Things like # of hours, pages, graphics, forms, and hourly rate.
The next level are what people like to call the intangibles; the things that are different for each job, even though the fundamental factors may be the same or similiar. These include things like " what the market will bear" , how important the client is in terms of future business with him or someone else,
is the client a successful business or a non profit organization, how busy/hungry I am at the time, a perceived aggravation/nuisance factor, and the like.
What I was after with my original question for a very basic site, was related more to the fundamental factors.
Any other ideas?
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davids
Posts: 211
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Belgium (American)
Status: offline
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RE: Pricing - 4/9/2003 19:14:15
Stu,
Regarding the fundamentals, I take this approach. First what is my company' s (not personal) target income. Of course, this must include costs for hardware & software, expenses, advertising, administration, tax, etc. Let' s say this is 75000 per year.
I have to count 20-25% of my time for selling and administrative purposes, so that leaves roughly 190 days per year, which means I need to ask around 390 per day.
Then I work up a basic work plan for a project. It is very difficult to say. Pages aren' t so important, since I believe that the creation of the template really takes the time. So, I will just estimate the time I think it will require for template, menus, images, special requests, client contact, revisions, etc.
Of course, then the intangibles need to be considered. If another company really underbids, I probably don' t want the work. I think the best way to avoid the lower end of the market is to specialize in an industry. Then you can speak to their problems. After all, people are looking for solutions, not websites!
_____________________________
Davids
International Relocation Technology
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