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Paula
Posts: 394
From: Morrow, Georgia, USA
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Business meetings - 4/13/2003 22:24:22
Hi all,
I had a particularly bad business meeting on Friday and I' m now going through the " what I can do different the next time" phase. Does anybody here have a method, so to speak, for dealing with business meetings? I have a list of questions to ask when I' m talking to a potential client. That' s not too hard to figure out, but what do you do if the person you' re speaking with doesn' t have a clue? (That was the situation Friday) I was told by this person that he would like for me to come to his office and talk about a redesign of their site, but that he didn' t really know what they wanted. Where do you go from there? My choice was to go to his office to talk. When I got there it was a " formal" meeting with the 2 owners of the company, the general manager and the sales manager. Yikes! I had talked to this man once before and he wanted me to come to his office the day he called back, which I couldn' t do, so I arranged to go the next day. I had already looked at their site, and it has serious problems. I made notes about the most serious problems I saw and did a little bit of research on their business and competitors, but I was in no way prepared to deal with a meeting like that. They asked a number of technical questions, and then couldn' t seem to grasp the answers, no matter how far I broke it down. It was almost as if they had gotten a list of questions from some where and didn' t have a clue what the questions were about. They also seemed to think that I should have some sort of proposal. I' m a bit perplexed, but I know there are some lessons to be learned from this experience. I' m just not sure what they are. Maybe I' m just out of touch and should have expected what happened or maybe there are just bad situations that can' t be completely avoided. Which ever, I want to feel more prepared for the next time. Oddly enough, they want me to meet with them again next week, but I' ve decided against it. There was a very awkward moment during the meeting when they said some uncalled for things about one of my clients, who is very well known in our community. Although I must admit that I sort of agreed with what was said, this person is a client of mine, has been for quite a while, and felt I had to gently defend him. I did so with a very slight smile and the remark, " Oh, I wouldn' t say that, he' s a good man." Which he is and everyone in the room knew this. I thought this was highly unprofessional of them, but I think that might be part of the reason they were so difficult during the meeting. Any links on business etiquette, meeting planning or that sort of thing, or thoughts/suggestions on this whole subject would be greatly appreciated.
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Paula
The more I learn the less I seem to know.
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john40004
Posts: 1346
From: Bardstown KY USA
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RE: Business meetings - 4/14/2003 9:34:41
Hi Paula,
Sometimes personalities simply don' t mesh and all the planning in the world can' t compensate for it. Initial perceptions are usually the best ones. It happened once to me with a doctor I was referred to. From the point we both spoke our first words, we knew we didn' t like each other for whatever reason and I went to someone else.
I can' t speak directly to web design, but in general for meetings make sure you have an agenda which includes the topics to be discussed, those who will attend and the length of the meeting. You seem to have done your homework the best you could prior to the meeting, but an agenda would have helped.
Looking back a few days later on the meeting, how do you feel now? Do you think the fee would have been worth the obvious uphill battle you would have faced, plus the potential future ethical questions as to your other client?
A final thought. It could have been worse - at least there wasn' t a sullen IT person sitting across the table who had developed the site internally![:p]
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If you lead a good life and say your prayers at night, when you die you' ll find yourself in Kentucky. The home of fast women and beautiful horses!
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_gail
Posts: 2874
From: So FL
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RE: Business meetings - 4/14/2003 12:22:15
There is no easy answer Paula.
Just when I think I " got" it, the next job throws me for a loop. Seems there is always something new I didn' t/couldn' t anticipate. So I just chalk it up for experience, learn from it and remember for the next time.
I too use a list of questions, or rather a worksheet. To use John' s term, it might be considered an " agenda," an informal one which I much prefer.
Whenever feasible, I submit the worksheet to the client to fill out and return BEFORE we have a more structured meeting by phone or in person. Knowing key bits of information prior to a meeting really helps a lot. I am more prepared, have a better sense of the clients needs, etc. For the client who says they really don' t know what they want, the worksheet helps, in part, to let them focus, to formulate ideas and understand some of what is involved. Both parties come to meet for the first time on a more common ground. In other words, less " DUH" moments and/or surprises.  PLUS, it helps you as the web designer/consultant take the lead.
It certainly would have been courteous if the contact told you in advance others would attend the meeting but it' s not unusual for this to happen. I' d be sure though, should you accept the job (this is one of the things my worksheet asks), to find out up front who will be the main contact. You know what they say about too many cooks.
While it is also regrettable your potential client made untoward statements about another, something like that would not, in and of itself, stop me from working with them…unless what they said was utterly egregious. It would, however, put up a huge red flag in this regard: if they talk about others, they will probably talk about me. I' d ask myself what is this client' s sphere of influence and, if they were unhappy with my services and blabbed to others about it, could they do damage to my business reputation?
I personally wouldn’t be intimidated by some of these things as you’ve explained them. It didn’t go that bad since they want you to come back next week. HOWEVER, in the final analysis I agree with Erin, go with your gut. If you are so turned off by the client(s), turn the job down. There will be others.
gail
[edit] Paula' s question is a very good one. Shouldn' t it be in the " Web Business Matters" for so others can more easily find it? [/edit]
< Message edited by _gail -- 4/14/2003 2:25 PM >
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bobby
Posts: 11394
Joined: 8/15/1969
From: Seattle WA USA
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RE: Business meetings - 4/14/2003 13:37:03
Paula, horror stories of that nature are in every service industry, not just web design... and yours isn' t all that bad. I' ve heard some real doozies in my short time in the game.
Web work is a side issue for me, so I don' t experience the " meeting" issue on a regular basis. And since I have a day job, I don' t need web work and can be far more selective than someone who may be doing this as a sole source of income.
That being said, when I walk into a conference room or an office and see more than one neck tie, I know I' m in trouble  .
Also, if the IT folks are there, keep your answers very dumbed down. Then they won' t understand what you' re talking about and they won' t try to impress the boss with the old " I know more than them" tactics...
I' ve had network managers grill me about the meaning of some web terms. I ended up writing down a URL to a website where he could get those deffinitions if he really wanted them (at that point I was ready to walk out... but his boss thought it was funny)
There' s nothing you can do.
I would go back to the next meeting. If they asked you back then you must have said or done something to impress them. Perhaps the comments they made about your other client were a way to see how you react to someone badmouthing a client?
Maybe by sticking up for him you have gained some respect?
As far as them having no clue, that' s nothing new. Did they ask you just how far up the search engine rankings you could get them? That' s my favorite...
If you get a chance, do a search online for the " Top ten things your web developer doesn' t tell you" type articles... or " Ten questions to ask your design consultant"
You' ll probably recognize a lot of what they said in the meeting. In general, it' s been my observation that people in management positions tend to deligate research.
They probably asked a secretary or underling to look up some web development info, and were handed a print out of an article on business practices in our industry and what to avoid... or some other info that when taken out of context can be more damaging than helpful.
I agree with everyone above... if you don' t feel comfortable working with them then dont. Unless you' re hurting for clients, then its a matter of weighing your needs against their maintenence level...
If this is the most annoying and disheartening experience you have with a potential client, consider yourself lucky 
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Paula
Posts: 394
From: Morrow, Georgia, USA
Status: offline
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RE: Business meetings - 4/14/2003 18:26:27
quote:
I can' t speak directly to web design, but in general for meetings make sure you have an agenda which includes the topics to be discussed, those who will attend and the length of the meeting.
Excellent suggestion John. I should have known to do that with all my years as a secretary! I' ve just always done that for a boss, didn' t occur to me that, oh yeah... I' m the boss now. Duh! Sometimes the most obvious thing simply escapes me.
quote:
Looking back a few days later on the meeting, how do you feel now?
I' m actually struck by the number of things that have come back to me, aside from the remarks about my client, that were simply bad manners. They reaffirmed that today when I called them. He waited 3 hours to call me back and after the start of the conversation placed me on speaker phone without even asking. My conclusion is that they have questionable ethics and bad manners. Although I could use the business, I turned it down and I think that was the right decision. Next!
quote:
A final thought. It could have been worse - at least there wasn' t a sullen IT person sitting across the table who had developed the site internally!
So true!
quote:
Whenever feasible, I submit the worksheet to the client to fill out and return BEFORE we have a more structured meeting by phone or in person.
That' s a great suggestion too, Gail. I' ve tried doing the worksheet over the phone with people and that has worked pretty well in the past, it just didn' t work with this guy.
quote:
if they talk about others, they will probably talk about me.
I do have concerns in that regard, their sphere of influence is pretty wide.
quote:
If this is the most annoying and disheartening experience you have with a potential client, consider yourself lucky
Amen.
Thanks all. It boils down to just what Erin said, go with your gut!
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Paula
The more I learn the less I seem to know.
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john40004
Posts: 1346
From: Bardstown KY USA
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RE: Business meetings - 4/14/2003 22:20:01
quote:
ORIGINAL: bobby
You' ll probably recognize a lot of what they said in the meeting. In general, it' s been my observation that people in management positions tend to deligate research.
They probably asked a secretary or underling to look up some web development info, and were handed a print out of an article on business practices in our industry and what to avoid... or some other info that when taken out of context can be more damaging than helpful.
Well ouch Bobby - that hurt! 
Seriously, part of the role of management is to delegate.
(1) It develops others. Part of a manager' s job must always be succession planning.
(2) If you' ve built a good team, most of the folks reporting to you should know more about the facts than you do. A manager' s role is to set policy and determine a course for the company based on the input of those reporting to him/her. Its not the role of the manager to know everything those below do - its the experience to " separate the wheat from the shaft" that' s important in a managerial position. With that said, its also important to know, and stay current with, the core of all positions reporting to you. Without that knowledge, the shaft becomes the wheat.
(3) Managerial salaries are not based on, nor are they justified by, the ability to do every task of those reporting to them. Rather, they are based on the ability of the manager to coordinate the tasks of those reporting to him/her. Case in point, the current war with Iraq. Is the time of the generals better spent flying the planes, driving the tanks, doing the intelligence work - or rather should it be spent coordinating those functions?
Lift right foot and step off soapbox.
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If you lead a good life and say your prayers at night, when you die you' ll find yourself in Kentucky. The home of fast women and beautiful horses!
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Paula
Posts: 394
From: Morrow, Georgia, USA
Status: offline
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RE: Business meetings - 4/15/2003 0:12:01
Hi John,
I don' t think Bobby was being critical of managers in general for this practice. I would guess that most of us understand the importance of delegation. I think he was criticizing the actions in this case because I don' t think a reasonable person would go into a technical meeting and not have the person with the knowledge of the subject with him? Why would he be asking the questions if he didn' t have the information necessary to understand the answer? False pride, maybe?
I think Bobby was right in this particular case. These people probably had a secretary do the research, not knowing what she was doing and then just took the words without understanding them. Frankly, I think it made them look foolish and they tried to play it off by making me feel inadequate to the task of explaining. At one point one of the owners looked at me and said- I don' t understand what you are talking about. So I literally drew him a picture and he seemed to understand, but he just shook his head and said- Well, all this stuff just gives me a headache anyway. Why be in the meeting, why ask the question, why have me spend 15 minutes of my life trying to make him understand, if he really didn' t care in the first place? All of them except the sales manager displayed this attitude to a degree. I think maybe they were the ones intimidated, certainly not by me, but by the subject matter.
I think I' ll do some research on business etiquette/business meetings, etc specifically dealing with web work. If anybody is interested I' ll post the links if I come up with any interesting reading.
Thanks again everybody.
Paula
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Paula
The more I learn the less I seem to know.
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