I HATE INCLUDES!!!!! (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Web Development] >> Microsoft FrontPage Help



Message


c1sissy -> I HATE INCLUDES!!!!! (5/10/2003 9:59:42)

I' m really really trying to get this. I followed the outfront tutorial, and still don' t get includes. It just isn' t clicking in!

I have the way that I would like this page to look. Color, did a page banner for it, Nothing fancy, but I just can' t seem to get it all to work!

back to the tutorial again, and again and again and..........[:@][:@][:@]




Mike54 -> RE: I HATE INCLUDES!!!!! (5/10/2003 11:02:28)

What seems to be the problem Deb?




J-man -> RE: I HATE INCLUDES!!!!! (5/10/2003 13:25:39)

Does the include work if you put it in the page that calls it?




c1sissy -> RE: I HATE INCLUDES!!!!! (5/10/2003 16:37:52)

Ok, now I did the pages as the tutorial says to do.
Now how do you create the rest of the pages that you want in your site?

I did a banner/heading that I would like to put on the top of each page, now how do you do this? I spent several hours working on this this morning, trying to get the light bulb to click in on this.

The table worked out, I did the contact, etc...that all worked. so I have the include pages.

what if I want the navagation to have some sort of gif for the buttons? So many questions I know, and I know that I am not asking all of them.

The backround of the page, I do this seperate from the includes?

deep breaths breath deeply into brown bag...............

I' m going to delete this one and start over, I want to get this right, have the copyrite thingie at the bottom, etc..........(I would have to make a larger table then the one in the tutorial right?)




caywind -> RE: I HATE INCLUDES!!!!! (5/10/2003 17:25:50)

quote:

what if I want the navagation to have some sort of gif for the buttons?
I usually use a different component for this. The problem is that, you would need a different include page to indicate the " current page" (button disabled) status, for each page.

Include pages are good for Headings, and Footers, it can be tricky to put nav in there.




Mike54 -> RE: I HATE INCLUDES!!!!! (5/10/2003 17:33:43)

quote:

deep breaths breath deeply into brown bag

LOL, it' s not that bad is it Deb?
What I usually do after I have the includes made up (Header, Menu and Footer) is create a new page with a table to hold them. Then I insert them (Insert > Web Component > Included Content > Page) where I want them making sure I get the results I want[;)] and then save it as a template page. You may have to play with the cell width/height to get things to fit the way you want.
Now you have the basic layout and only need to create the content for each new page as you build them. Create your new pages saving them as whateveryouwanttonamethem.html and the template page is always available for the next one. Obviously you may have to start with a " blank" menu include since you don' t have any pages yet to create links for...[:p]
As for your background, is it an image or a color your trying to use? Not that I have much experience with images. You might have noticed I tend toward vanilla for background.[:D]
quote:

what if I want the navagation to have some sort of gif for the buttons?

Create your menu include as a table and place your .gifs each in their own cell.
Hope that provides some useful information.[:D]




Mike54 -> RE: I HATE INCLUDES!!!!! (5/10/2003 17:36:45)

quote:

The problem is that, you would need a different include page to indicate the " current page" (button disabled) status, for each page.

Very good point caywind. Lately I' ve been using plain text with css for effects (mouseover) and haven' t been worrying about current page disabled being indicated. Is that a bad thing?




c1sissy -> RE: I HATE INCLUDES!!!!! (5/10/2003 17:43:22)

quote:

LOL, it' s not that bad is it Deb?


Mike, as you know I have been trying to get includes for a while. I' m really not a duh, it just isn' t clicking in. I know though, that when I do get it, I' m posting a very large bright wahhh hooooo! lol.

I' m going to print what you and caywind have posted and include it( lol get that!!) with the tutorial that I have printed from outfront tutorials.

I know that I could just go with a template, but I really really want to get this and do something that isn' t a template. grin, you know make your child really proud of you?! lol

Thanks for what you have posted, I really appreciate it and am going to get this sooner of later! [:@]




Mike54 -> RE: I HATE INCLUDES!!!!! (5/10/2003 18:18:37)

quote:

I know that I could just go with a template, but I really really want to get this and do something that isn' t a template.

I can' t tell if you misunderstood what I was saying or not[&:]. I wasn' t saying to get a template but rather to create a " template" page. That will save having to recreate the layout every time you do make a new page.

Am I misunderstanding back?[:)]

quote:

you know make your child really proud of you?!
I understand that one real well. It' s the price of making them make us proud.[;)][:D]





caywind -> RE: I HATE INCLUDES!!!!! (5/10/2003 18:20:10)

quote:

about current page disabled being indicated. Is that a bad thing?
not really, just leads to a little teeny confusion




c1sissy -> RE: I HATE INCLUDES!!!!! (5/11/2003 0:29:55)

quote:

I can' t tell if you misunderstood what I was saying or not


Oh no, I understood what you were saying. I ment that i know that it would be easier to get a template already designed. Sorry If I wasn' t being clear with what I was saying. lol, trying to do a billion things at one time.

J-man
quote:

Does the include work if you put it in the page that calls it?


lol, per the first parts of the tutorial they do.

Then I wonder how I add the things that I would like to add. Does that make sense? Like the banner etc at the top, and if I make the buttons for the navagation etc... Then how do you get those to work?

I think my brian needs a rest for the day. lol.




garry -> RE: I HATE INCLUDES!!!!! (5/11/2003 2:14:57)

I love Includes !!!!!!!!!!! ( & I still have a long way to go)

Whats more I just tested and found they work without extensions and having been FTP' d.

Step back from the PC Deb, and go for a walk outside, come back and try this angle!!

Consider this.................. My index page is called index.htm (original)
I have other separate pages I have been working on in my web called page1.htm (lazy), blue.htm, header.htm (with just my header image & a bit of text on it sitting at the top of the page), navigation.htm(with just my navigation buttons sitting in its own 140pix? wide table in the centre of the page), footer.htm(with just address details & a stray image sitting adhoc at the top of its page), etc etc

Now on my index page I have a few tables .... as we do ....... with 3 includes within it......

At the very top of my index page I went , INSERT> Web Component >INCLUDE > header.htm and my header appeared across the top called header.htm.

Down the LHS cell in my 2 cell table I " included" ie web component>include... my navigation.htm . The right hand side of this table will be the content & stuff I am yet to write out .

And down the very bottom (actually not even in a table) I clicked on INSERT>Web Component> Include & found my page called footer.htm and zap.........I almost have an index.htm page I am happy with.........just needs content and a bit of tweaking.

I play with the header.htm page & delete a few spaces that appeared underneath it (cant see them) But on the index page the other stuff just bumped up a few lines.

Navigation only has home & blue on it, I can add to it later when I get my main index page just right.

The footer part of my index.htm page is rough enough, this will be all over the place on every page anyway, depending on how much content I put on each page. Ooops I forgot the web address .....so go to footer.htm and modify.

OK I am happy with my layout of my index.htm page, the navigation include is where I want it (butt up to the include header)

Now I want to make a new page so I save index.htm as a " save as" debs_page2.htm

Now debspage2 looks like index.htm, but with different content added into the RHS cell nextto the Navigation. (I think I just used my index page as a template....without realising it!)
Whats more I am also going to save the index page as name " template.htm" and keep opening template.htm and saving as the name of all other pages I want.

(might make the template.htm page use the same background properties as the index.htm page so I only need to change the index page background for future modifications)

Anyway, using my template.htm, I save 3 times as red.htm, yellow.htm & green.htm and add content to each of these pages

Hmmm, now I go to my navigation.htm page and type in and hyperlink the names red, yellow & green. This update appears on every page in my web with the includes in them.

(Actually the blue.htm page and page1.htm will need to be overwritten using the template.htm as they do not have the new include pages formatting since they were created in my web earlier) before making my layout & (template).

I may of totally confused you with my terminology, but maybe someone else out there will be 2 steps closer.

Cheers from the Outback




c1sissy -> RE: I HATE INCLUDES!!!!! (5/11/2003 11:14:16)

quote:

Step back from the PC Deb, and go for a walk outside, come back and try this angle!!

Wow I went for the longest walk, lol[;)]

Thanks Gary for all of this, I' m going to print all of this out so that I have it in front of me.(with your permission of course)

Me and includes have been butting heads for a while now and I figure that it is about time that I win this battle.[:@]

I' m going to delete and start all over again.

Now do you create a folder for the includes? I' m sure that I have read through here that you do this, though boggled mind could be remembering incorrectly right about now.

You mentioned pages with color. These are includes? and why would you have color pages for the includes?

Now, the navigation page. You just have the words typed in there, which is how i had done this as well in my botched up one, lol. What about when you decide on how you want that navigation to look. Buttons, etc..?




garry -> RE: I HATE INCLUDES!!!!! (5/11/2003 20:39:36)

A folder for includes.?.....sometimes I do , maybe I should all the time, depends on the web size.
quote:

You mentioned pages with color
, .....they were just names I made up.... and all those pages will have the nav, header & footer includes on them.

You already know how your web page will look in your minds eye.

Just start with a 4 page web. Leave the index page for now.
Make a header on header named page, make just a lonely navigation system (not hyperlinked yet) (any 10? or ? words in a column) on the nav.htm page
And make a footer on the footer.htm page

Then go to your index.htm page and drag all those pages into their rightful spots on your index page (ie include each one in various parts of the table).

Just start small

Better still, go to one of your existing websites & copy & paste your header to a new header page, navigation to a new navigation page & footer to a new footer page. Then recreate a new page & reconsturct your page by laying out those sections as ' includes'

Cheers
Garry




Non-Profit -> RE: I HATE INCLUDES!!!!! (5/11/2003 23:40:19)

Deb,

Did you try Abbeyvet' s tutorial at http://www.outfront.net/tutorials_02/getting_started/includes1.htm ? Her stuff is much better than the stuff I' ve read in the FP manual!

It took me a while to get comfortable with includes, but they' re definitely worth the effort. Hang in there! [:)]

Tony




EWD -> RE: I HATE INCLUDES!!!!! (5/11/2003 23:51:30)

C1 -

Here' s an old thread that might help you -
http://www.frontpagewebmaster.com/tm.asp?m=66723&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=&language=single&tmode=&smode=&s=#93322

Good luck! Once you get the AHA moment you will own them. It' s just a matter of time. Hope it comes soon!




c1sissy -> RE: I HATE INCLUDES!!!!! (5/12/2003 2:00:53)

Tony:
Yes, in fact i printed it so that I would have it in hand. in fact I printed the whole tutorial and something that Thomas wrote as well, I believe that was on tables. Thanks. I' m hoping that with that and this informaiton that everyone posted in here that I get this soon.

EDW:
Thanks for the link. almost 2am, couldnt sleep. lol, my #2 son stopped over and I made coffee, ding!!! Now I' m strung out. I think that I am going to go and look at your link now, thanks for the posting!

<edit>EDW: Great link! Thanks, Mike54 has placed several great links in here! all the other information is great as well! I' m adding this to my word.doc on all of this!




c1sissy -> RE: I HATE INCLUDES!!!!! (5/13/2003 19:34:07)

quote:

Mike54 quoteCreate your menu include as a table and place your .gifs each in their own cell.


Hmmm, now I think that I am maybe starting to get this. lol, maybe i should get it before I ask this question.

In regards to the menu. If you make buttons, is it necessary to make a cell for each one? Or can it sit in one cell? Would a cell for each one make it easier to change it if I decide that I have to add another page with another name, therefore adding another button? hmmm. mind is a working here. lol, finally! roflol.

Mark54, I think that I might be on target? lol[;)]

<edit>
Now, if I want to have my navation backround a certain color and the header a certain color, how do I do this?As well as having the body of the page a certain color. Would I do just a basic backround? and then What is the size in pixels that I would make this in photoshop? How wide would I make the header? As I was working on this I would know the height by how I make it, just wondering what the " standard size" in width would be? Also for the navagation, how would I know how long to make it? Ahhh so many questions as I start to find the light bulb getting brighter! learn learn learn!!!! lol, also have several new books on the way!




garry -> RE: I HATE INCLUDES!!!!! (5/13/2003 21:11:30)

However you want!!

What ever works for you in the past.

There is nothing different about " includes" except those parts are on seperate pages.

I' d throw them in cells.

Cheers Garry




c1sissy -> RE: I HATE INCLUDES!!!!! (5/13/2003 21:19:51)

Gary, thanks, btw you must have posted as I edited my post, any hints on the edit that I posted?




garry -> RE: I HATE INCLUDES!!!!! (5/13/2003 21:44:43)

Just as you would do it on a normal website.

You would add color to your table background, but in this case on each of your include page files.

As for pixel sizes, hmmmmm individual choice & depending on what you are doing....however you have done it in the past.
I have had to redo a few where I used an image as a " background" and with higher resolutions, it tiled.

Where possible place your image in a background of the same color, so the table expands with the viewers screen & your image is still central.




c1sissy -> RE: I HATE INCLUDES!!!!! (5/13/2003 21:49:13)

quote:

You would add color to your table background, but in this case on each of your include page files.

OK, Now just as I think that I have it.

So on navagation page, I add the color to that page and when I place that into the page it automatically places the color as well?

Also, tried to place an image for a tile effect in the header, but it didnt tile, any suggestions?

I have some more questions, but will hold off for now on the others, grin. I' m still trying to work out some things before I ask them.

Thanks gary, I appreciat the help that you have been.




garry -> RE: I HATE INCLUDES!!!!! (5/13/2003 22:31:18)

On your navigation page I would probably have the buttons/text in a table and would put a rinse through that table.

To tile , you need to go to table properties and insert image as a background. (On your header page)




c1sissy -> RE: I HATE INCLUDES!!!!! (5/14/2003 7:21:42)

Gary:
It isn' t working.

On the header page I have the tile inserted. It works on there.

When I go to includes to include it, all that happens is that I get header.htm in the header of the page.

Now, If I go to format table and insert it this way just on that page that I am on, page1.htm, it works, so this can/can not be done with includes?

I have the includes for the basics, navagation etc...but for adding things like the header footer etc... Not getting it. Also, what if I want to add a graphic to the header? ahh, so many questions so little time in life.[;)]

btw, what do you mean by rinse?




garry -> RE: I HATE INCLUDES!!!!! (5/14/2003 11:28:46)

Rinse-- ---color ??

Here is a basic layout for the index.htm page. (note that this is just how I do it)
You may want a table at the top (empty) until you include your header page into it.
Table in the middle with 2 cells (LHS) insert nav.htm & content in the RHS.
Table at the bottom or maybe not.....but at thebottom you can insert your footer page.

Basically the only stuff you actually write on THIS page (index.htm) is the content in RHS cell. THe rest is included from the other named pages.
You can also type content below the nav.htm

It is those " include" pages where you make changes that will propagate throughout the rest of the web)(because you used includes on all pages)(except the pages you " include" )

In your case if you want to modify your header, you only modify header.htm , add an image (We can advance the issue later as there are other things you can do....like several includes within the include header etc)

Ensure your header images etc are in a table on the header.htm page & get the image to tile on the background of the table.

For your footer, just type out your name & address on the page called footer.htm & include that page at the bottom of your index.htm page.

Now when I awake, I expect to see a Yipee somewhere......I' m sure the penny is about to drop.

[image]http://www.frontpagewebmaster.com/upfiles/24/Hf99107.gif[/image]




c1sissy -> RE: I HATE INCLUDES!!!!! (5/14/2003 11:48:06)

Hi Gary, I' m working right now but had to check in to see if there was a reply. I' ve got most of the includes grin, long time coming!! so there is a 1/2 of a yahooo! lol.

Will be back on this later on,
thanks.




c1sissy -> RE: I HATE INCLUDES!!!!! (5/14/2003 17:05:43)

quote:

Ensure your header images etc are in a table on the header.htm page

Ok, this is what I did, and am runing into trouble here. I thought that I had done this correctly, but it still didn' t work out.

On the header.htm page. I put a table and inserted the backround tile that I wanted to use.

Next step, right?, would be go to the page1.htm top table (I have the 3 tables stacked as you have drawn them, so I was getting the hang of it!) When I click in the top table on the index.htm page go to includes and insert the header.htm include, I get an additional table at the top of the page. It is placing table and the tiled image in the table! Now if I try to cut the extra table, my included item also leaves? Tell me oh wise one, what am I dong wrong?

Darn, and I have to go to the office tonight to pull some followups on some medical billings. So most likely I' ll be going crazy until I can get back on here to see what I am doign wrong! growl.




garry -> RE: I HATE INCLUDES!!!!! (5/14/2003 18:32:41)

More than likely the modification needs to happen on your header.htm page.
Remove those extra " enter" spaces as this determines the size of the include page.

Whatever you see (invisible spacers & extra tables & all) on the " include" pages is what will zap into the index.htm when " included"

Go to the spot above your table/image on the header.htm page and try a " delete" to bring the image/table to the top of the page. Also go to just below the table/image & hit delete a few times. Hopefully when you look at the index.htm page now.......the header should be where you want it.

Also make sure your table (on the main index.htm page) is only 1 space??row??? high, so the " include" fits in snugly.

Just like when you add a graphic to a table, you make sure there are no extra tabs/spaces & the graphic is trimmed to how you want it.

In reality " includes" are just like adding special graphics (as you do using the INSERT image function) that can be easily modified to suit our changing requirements. With those " graphics" being certain pages in our web.

(My terminoligy may have people wincing in pain)




c1sissy -> RE: I HATE INCLUDES!!!!! (5/14/2003 22:45:37)

[:@][:@][:@][:@][:@]

I did as you said. However, I' m still getting the double table when i insert.

table is as stated in your post in size.

I even nixed the tile that I wanted to use and just filled the table with a color to see if it would work, nada.

All the other steps fell right into place. However, trying to get this just isn' t working out for some reason!




garry -> RE: I HATE INCLUDES!!!!! (5/14/2003 23:16:57)

Could be time to publish to web & have a pick through it




Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI
0.1572266