Where and how to begin the SEO process? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Web Development] >> Search Engine Optimization and Web Business



Message

Mike_R -> Where and how to begin the SEO process? (5/21/2003 12:21:54)

I have been reading the threads in this forum as I get ready to begin the SEO process for my site and am finding myself frustrated with the plethora of terms and the vast number of things that I must consider. I am having trouble digesting it enough to know where a good and simple place to begin is. I have seen several links suggested, but does anyone know one that sort of guides one (espcially the dumbfounded) from a logical starting point forward. Incidentally, I know that I want to eventually list on Google and I am not using Yahoo' s pay services.

Also, here are a few questions that arose when I was reading other threads:

1.) I found a code validator and tried it out. I got an error message that said I didn' t have a DOCTYPE listed on my homepage. Is this necessary, and if so, do I need one on every page of the site?

2.) I have heard that page names should not contain upper case letters. Is this true?

3.) I have heard reference to " static site maps" but don' t understand what they are.

4.) Are " redirects" pages that send the viewer to another page?

5.) What is the difference between dynamic and static. I use asp forms--is that dynamic?

Sorry for throwing so much at you all. Any random comments on any of these points from anyone would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Frustrated Mike[8|]



abbeyvet -> RE: Where and how to begin the SEO process? (5/21/2003 13:07:07)

quote:

1.) I found a code validator and tried it out. I got an error message that said I didn' t have a DOCTYPE listed on my homepage. Is this necessary, and if so, do I need one on every page of the site?


The doctype declaration tells the browser the what standard of HTML is used by the page and therefore how it should be displayed.

Currently most browsers will assume that a page with no DTD is using old, invalid, possibly buggy code and will thus render it as older browsers would have. This is good because it ensures backward compatibility for the present at least. It is bad because certain things, particularly some newer CSS standards, will just not work.

It is necessary if you want your page to validate, and it is needed on every page.

You will find out more about the subject here:
http://www.htmlhelp.com/tools/validator/doctype.html

quote:

2.) I have heard that page names should not contain upper case letters. Is this true?


It is best to stick to lowercase. On Windows page.html and Page.html are different files, so sticking to one will keep things tidier and less error prone.

It is also best not to have gaps in file and directory names, so not " this directory/this page.htm" but " this_directory/this_page.htm


quote:

I have heard reference to " static site maps" but don' t understand what they are.


Nothing more that a page which you create and onto which you put links to all the other important pages in your site.

quote:

Are " redirects" pages that send the viewer to another page?


Yes.

quote:

What is the difference between dynamic and static. I use asp forms--is that dynamic?


Essentially, and this is breaking it right down, static pages are created as HTML pages, with all the content of the page on the page. Dynamic pages are generally created from a database, so the actual page may not physically exist, it is created by feeding data from database into a template.

You will see the difference in the URL - a static page would end something like /directory/page.html, whereas a dynamic one tends (though not always) to end in something like: page.asp?action=something

the action being the bit that queries the database and pops the relevant information into a template.


On the question of SEO, you really should have a read through some of the tutorials at http://www.searchenginewatch.com/, which should clarify quite a lot.

The best place to start? You have missed that I am afraid [:@] The best time/place to start thinking about this is before you build the site. That way you can focus your pages, and target their content, to the search phrases that are important to you. But it is not too late by any means, just less convenient, to start at any other time.



Mike_R -> RE: Where and how to begin the SEO process? (5/21/2003 14:32:59)

Thank you, Katherine, I appreciate the tips and advice. When I started this site, I knew nothing about anything. The whole process has evolved one bit at a time. In the future, I will know better how to structure everthing.

I think my first step will be to make sure that all pages have the DOCTYPE beginning. I am going to visit the link you supplied right now. I will let you all know how it' s going. And I am sure I will have plenty more questions as I proceed.

Thanks again,

Mike



pageoneresults -> RE: Where and how to begin the SEO process? (5/21/2003 17:26:37)

quote:

this_directory/this_page.htm

Hi Katherine! I would suggest changing the above to...

this-directory/this-page.htm

For many reasons such as usability, readability and particularly for the search engines. It appears that some search engines (SEs) will treat an underscore differently than a hyphen. A hyphen represents a true space in the sense of the word when used in url paths.

Mike_R, get ready for information overload. The process of SEO (Search Engine Optimization) or what is now becoming more commonly known as SEM (Search Engine Marketing), is a daunting one and, one that will leave you breathless at times. If this site is your main source of income and you have the devoted time to perform SEM, I would strongly suggest a browse through the topics here and also at [url=" http://www.webmasterworld.com/" ]WebmasterWorld[/url].

This industry is no longer a plug and play process. It was a few years ago. You buy a piece of software, plug in the information and then begin to play. That is no longer the case. Serious SEM starts at the core of a website, its structure. It is more difficult to work with a site that has already been built then it is to work with one in conceptual stages, or one that is being rebuilt from scratch. So much goes into directory structuring, file naming, page layout, css, etc.

Once all of that is done, then it comes time to start submitting. And since there are really no free resources left that are of any value to submit to, the free submission process is almost archaic. Google prefers to find your site from a link on another site, although they still offer a free submit form.

The rest of them are going to require that you Pay for Inclusion (PFI). This means that you pay to have your pages indexed within 24 hours to one week depending on the resource. It does not mean that you are guaranteed placement. Some of those PFI resources offer free submit forms, but if you need immediate exposure, PFI is the best route to take.

Here is a listing of the top performers in PFI...

[url=" http://www.seoconsultants.com/search-engine-partners/" ]Search Engine Partnerships - Pay for Inclusion[/url]

Then, if budget permits, you' ll head on over to Overture and set up a PPC (Pay Per Click) campaign. If you are bidding on a small number of terms that are not real competitive, then you may want to manage your campaign using the Overture interface. If you are bidding on a large number of terms, or ones that are highly competitive, you may want to invest in a PPC Management Program of some sort. I utilize [url=" http://www.seoconsultants.com/ppc-bid-management/" ]BidRank[/url] which is an Overture approved third party tool.

There is much more to this than meets the eye. Don' t believe everything you' ve read at various resources out there. Take it with a grain of salt. Any type of automatic submissions, automatic page generating programs, automatic link exchanging programs, anything automatic is something that you will probably want to stay away from.



pageoneresults -> RE: Where and how to begin the SEO process? (5/21/2003 18:02:44)

A short glossary of the most common terms (acronyms) in alphabetical order related to Search Engine Marketing...
  • CMS
    Content Management System
  • CPC
    Cost per Click
  • CTR
    Click Thru Rate (associated with PPC/CPC campaigns)
  • ODP
    The Open Directory Project (a major directory aka DMOZ)
  • PFI
    Pay for Inclusion
  • PPC
    Pay per Click
  • ROI
    Return on Investment - Sales per Lead
  • SEM
    Search Engine Marketing
    SEO
    Search Engine Optimization
  • SEP
    Search Engine Positioning
  • SERPSs
    Search Engine Results Pages
  • SPAM
    Sites Positioned Above Me
    (a joke, originally coined by a WebmasterWorld Moderator)
I' ll add to the list as time permits, but those will be some of the most common terms, acronyms, abbreviations, and/or phrases that you are most likely to use in an SEM working environment.

Here is the mother of all Glossarys when it comes to Search Engine Optimization, Marketing and the Search industry in general...

[url=" http://www.webmasterworld.com/glossary/" ]WebmasterWorld Glossary of Terms[/url]



Mike_R -> RE: Where and how to begin the SEO process? (5/21/2003 20:41:38)

Hi all. I used the validator at http://www.htmlhelp.com/tools/validator/ to check out my home page, and I got the following long list of errors. Just scanning these, does it look like any of these will clear up by adding a DOCTYPE to the HTML? Or, are these just the product of garbage bloated code written by FrontPage? I' m just trying to get an idea of what kind of DOCTYPE I need. It seems from what I have reviewed and what deprecated elements I' m using in the site that I will need to use the " HTML 4 transitional" one.

Mike

quote:

Document Checked
URL: http://www.darncoolstuff.com
Last modified: Sun, 18 May 2003 21:39:41 GMT
Character encoding: windows-1252
Level of HTML: Unknown
Errors and Warnings
Line 1, character 1:
<html>
^Error: missing document type declaration; assuming HTML 4.01 Transitional

Line 9, character 23:
<style fprolloverstyle>A:hover {color: #FF0000}
^Error: FPROLLOVERSTYLE is not a member of a group specified for any attribute

Line 9, character 23:
<style fprolloverstyle>A:hover {color: #FF0000}
^Error: required attribute TYPE not specified

Line 13, character 17:
<body topmargin=" 0" background=" images/SideColBckgrnd.gif" >
^Error: there is no attribute TOPMARGIN for this element (in this HTML version)

Line 19, character 99:
... lapse: collapse" bordercolor=" #111111" width=" 770" >
^Error: there is no attribute BORDERCOLOR for this element (in this HTML version)

Line 22, character 79:
... .gif" width=" 511" height=" 41" ></td>
^Error: required attribute ALT not specified

Line 25, character 91:
... der=0 width=" 173" height=" 41" ></a></td>
^Error: required attribute ALT not specified

Line 27, character 78:
... 4.gif" width=" 86" height=" 41" ></td>
^Error: required attribute ALT not specified

Line 38, character 70:
... " coords=" 182, 142, 228, 164" >
^Error: required attribute ALT not specified

Line 39, character 69:
... " coords=" 233, 141, 278, 164" >
^Error: required attribute ALT not specified

Line 40, character 79:
... " coords=" 283, 141, 402, 163" >
^Error: required attribute ALT not specified

Line 41, character 90:
... " coords=" 407, 142, 490, 167" >
^Error: required attribute ALT not specified

Line 42, character 101:
... " coords=" 495, 144, 597, 164" >
^Error: required attribute ALT not specified

Line 44, character 100:
... _I1" width=" 770" height=" 177" ></td>
^Error: required attribute ALT not specified

Line 52, character 128:
... " #111111" width=" 770" height=" 337" background=" Includes/TBLB ...
^Error: there is no attribute HEIGHT for this element (in this HTML version)

Line 52, character 145:
... 770" height=" 337" background=" Includes/TBLBackgroundWht.gif" ...
^Error: there is no attribute BACKGROUND for this element (in this HTML version)

Line 59, character 58:
... 210" valign=" top" background=" images/DCSHomePage3_14.gif" >
^Error: there is no attribute BACKGROUND for this element (in this HTML version)

Line 61, character 84:
... der=0 width=" 166" height=" 24" ></a><img border=" 0" src=" image ...
^Error: required attribute ALT not specified

Line 61, character 161:
... .gif" width=" 166" height=" 11" ><a onmouseover=" image2.src=' .. ...
^Error: required attribute ALT not specified

Line 61, character 398:
... der=0 width=" 166" height=" 24" ></a><img border=" 0" src=" image ...
^Error: required attribute ALT not specified

Line 61, character 475:
... .gif" width=" 166" height=" 11" ><a onmouseover=" image3.src=' .. ...
^Error: required attribute ALT not specified

Line 61, character 712:
... der=0 width=" 166" height=" 24" ></a><img border=" 0" src=" image ...
^Error: required attribute ALT not specified

Line 61, character 789:
... .gif" width=" 166" height=" 11" ><a onmouseover=" image4.src=' .. ...
^Error: required attribute ALT not specified

Line 61, character 1033:
... der=0 width=" 166" height=" 24" ></a><img border=" 0" src=" image ...
^Error: required attribute ALT not specified

Line 61, character 1110:
... .gif" width=" 166" height=" 11" ><a onmouseover=" image5.src=' .. ...
^Error: required attribute ALT not specified

Line 61, character 1326:
... der=0 width=" 166" height=" 24" ></a><img border=" 0" src=" image ...
^Error: required attribute ALT not specified

Line 61, character 1403:
... .gif" width=" 166" height=" 11" ><a onmouseover=" image6.src=' .. ...
^Error: required attribute ALT not specified

Line 61, character 1665:
... der=0 width=" 166" height=" 24" ></a><img border=" 0" src=" image ...
^Error: required attribute ALT not specified

Line 61, character 1742:
... .gif" width=" 166" height=" 11" ><a onmouseover=" image8.src=' .. ...
^Error: required attribute ALT not specified

Line 61, character 1980:
... rect" coords=" 15, 3, 165, 23" ></map><img name=" image8" src=" ...
^Error: required attribute ALT not specified

Line 61, character 2090:
... 0_I2" width=" 166" height=" 24" ></a></td>
^Error: required attribute ALT not specified

Line 65, character 77:
... .gif" width=" 166" height=" 44" ></td>
^Error: required attribute ALT not specified

Line 75, character 76:
... jpg" width=" 140" height=" 260" ><p align=" center" style=" margi ...
^Error: required attribute ALT not specified

Line 275, character 19:
<hr color=" #008000" width=" 90%" >
^Error: there is no attribute COLOR for this element (in this HTML version)

Line 292, character 76:
... /DisplayCart.asp?MID=4886100&CHID=101" >
^Error: unknown entity CHID

Line 293, character 87:
... .gif" width=" 107" height=" 26" ></A></p>
^Error: required attribute ALT not specified

Line 299, character 90:
... .gif" width=" 131" height=" 82" ></a></p>
^Error: required attribute ALT not specified

Line 311, character 105:
... gif" width=" 138" height=" 169" ><p align=" center" style=" margi ...
^Error: required attribute ALT not specified

Line 327, character 99:
... gif" width=" 137" height=" 151" ></a><p align=" center" style=" m ...
^Error: required attribute ALT not specified

Line 331, character 63:
... gcolor=" #FFFFFF" bordercolor=" #FFFFFF" >
^Error: there is no attribute BORDERCOLOR for this element (in this HTML version)

Line 370, character 68:
... ct" coords=" 176, 59, 221, 82" >
^Error: required attribute ALT not specified

Line 371, character 67:
... ct" coords=" 231, 57, 273, 82" >
^Error: required attribute ALT not specified

Line 372, character 77:
... ct" coords=" 280, 59, 398, 81" >
^Error: required attribute ALT not specified

Line 373, character 88:
... ct" coords=" 406, 60, 489, 79" >
^Error: required attribute ALT not specified

Line 374, character 99:
... ct" coords=" 496, 59, 601, 81" >
^Error: required attribute ALT not specified

Line 376, character 94:
... ght=" 175" usemap=" #FPMap0_I4" ></td>
^Error: required attribute ALT not specified



Mike_R -> RE: Where and how to begin the SEO process? (5/23/2003 10:39:46)

Again, I want to thank you all for the advice. Pageone, the glossary info is great! It cleared up one item that I had been seeing and couldn' t figure out--ODP. I' m sure I will be referring to the glossary often as I continue. And you are right, this is true information overload.

I have a question now about themes. I have been reading up on them and am not sure that I fully understand the concept. At my site, I sell several types or products (educational software and games, educational toys, radio control hobbies, personal security products, etc.) at discount prices. Is the fact that I am not targeting one type of product (widgets, for example) going to make it hard to use the themes approach? There are tons of " discounters" and " wholesalers" on the web. Do you think it' s possible to find a theme in my situation that is at least somewhat unique? Or is that necessary with themes?

Mike R,



ajdevies -> RE: Where and how to begin the SEO process? (5/23/2003 14:35:45)

Mike:

I' ll jump in and address some of the errors in your validation report:

1. Add a DOCTYPE to your webpage - it will eliminate a few of the errors and then you can focus on the FP bloat and typos.

Example for DOCTYPE that accepts FP2002 code: 
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC " -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"  " http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd" >
<html lang=" en" >
<head>
<meta http-equiv=" Content-Language"  content=" en-us" >
<meta http-equiv=" Content-Type"  content=" text/html; charset=windows-1252" >
<meta name=" GENERATOR"  content=" Microsoft FrontPage 5.0" >
<meta name=" ProgId"  content=" FrontPage.Editor.Document" >


Note that the DOCTYPE must precede the HTML tag. The EN, en and en-us attributes indicate my webpage (from which I took the above example) uses American English. If you have coded for some other language, change these attributes.

2. There are three basic ways to use " style" in a webpage: with the STYLE tag and attributes specified in the HEAD of each webpage; as an external style sheet that can be linked to every webpage; and as an in-line attribute with some other tag.

Example 1 - STYLE tag used in webpage' s HEAD section: 
<style type=" text/css" >
<!--  hide these style attributes from older browsers
a:hover {color: #FF0000;}
// End Hiding-->
</style>


Note that a semi-colon is required after the FF0000.

Example 2: External style sheet LINKed to a webpage:

Create a separate file of the styles common to every page using your favorite text editor (the simpler the better.) Save it as a text-type file with the extension .css.

FP has a Style Sheet editor built in:
File>New>Page or Web
From the menu that appears along the right side of the screen, select " Page Templates"
The templates window opens with three tabs: General, Frames Pages and Style Sheets
Click the Style Sheets tab to open a new page with the .css extension
Enter your styles in the same format as with the STYLE tag in Example 1 above and save it as you do any other FP webpage (don' t add the .css - FP does that for you.)

This is code for a webpage I' m currently working on. Assume I saved it with the file name mystyles.css. 
a
	{
	font-family: Arial, sans-serif;
	text-decoration: none;
	}

a:link
	{
	font-family: Arial, sans-serif;
	text-decoration: none;
	color: #660066;
	}


Link the external style sheet to each page as follows. Put this code in the HEAD section. I' ve had to play with the location of the link statement relative to FP themes and borders. 
<link rel=" stylesheet"  type=" text/css"  href=" mystyles.css" >



The benefit to external style sheets is that you only need to change an attribute in one file - not 2 or 5 or 50 or 100.

3. Setting the DOCTYPE may clear up the ' topmargin' error. A better way is to set margins in your external style sheet or in the STYLE tag. The code for margins and background color are as follows: 
body
	{
	font-family: " Times New Roman" , serif;
	font-size: 12pt;
   	color: #000000;
   	background-color: #FFFFFF;
	margin-top: 0;
	margin-right: 0;
	margin-left: 0;
	margin-bottom: 0;
	}


4. The bordercolor errors should go away if you use the DOCTYPE as specified above. If they don' t then the tag really does not support the bordercolor attribute.

5. I will be polite and say the ALT tag SHOULD be included for every image. I am working on accessibility issues (for disabled web users), so I prefer MUST be included for every image.

Speech-enabled browsers read aloud the content of the ALT tag so blind or low-vision users can use the internet.

Some users have the ' display image' option in their browser disabled to avoid objectionable images and/or enable faster loading of webpages. With images disabled the content of the ALT attribute is displayed in place of the image instead of a box with a red x.

If your image is a navigation image, or part of a navigation image map the ALT content prevents the user from leaving your page because they can' t figure out how to navigate.

If there is no relevant text for an image, use an ' empty' ALT tag.

To use an ALT tag with content: 
<img src=" /images/mydog.gif"  alt=" This is a picture of my dog" ></img>


To use an empty ALT tag: 
<img src=" /images/mydog.gif"  alt=" " ></img>


I know these suggestions sound like a lot of work, but if you are serious about having a quality site, they are important issues to correct. In the long run they will also make you life much easier as your website grows in number of pages and browser standards change.

Good Luck!




Mike_R -> RE: Where and how to begin the SEO process? (5/23/2003 15:04:52)

AJ, you are awesome! Thank you for taking the time to analyze the report. I am going to have a busy 3-day weekend, but as you mentioned, I do want my site to be a quality site. I am willing to do whatever I have to to get this site looking and operating well.

I have one question about css. I had originally wanted to stay away from css because I' d heard things about poor browser support for css and other limitations. I definitely see the benefit if it will work in most browsers. Anyway, say you set the css to use Arial as the base font for the site. Then, say you want to use a couple of different fonts on a page (kid' s toys, e.g.)? Can you still make such adjustments, or are you limited to the definitions you set up for your style sheets?

Mike R



Reflect -> RE: Where and how to begin the SEO process? (5/27/2003 7:55:46)

quote:

Anyway, say you set the css to use Arial as the base font for the site. Then, say you want to use a couple of different fonts on a page (kid' s toys, e.g.)? Can you still make such adjustments, or are you limited to the definitions you set up for your style sheets?


Hi,

You can override external CSS. You can use in-line CSS for this, I would still stay away from fonts though.

http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/present/styles.html#h-14.2.2

Brian



Spooky -> RE: Where and how to begin the SEO process? (5/27/2003 16:33:08)

The validation shows up a lot of alt text errors for images, I would as suggested above, provide an alt text for each image first, merely as a way of reducing the list so that you can focus on the more relevant errors.



pageoneresults -> RE: Where and how to begin the SEO process? (5/27/2003 16:48:11)

When addressing the alt tag issues, use an empty alt reference for those images that don' t need a full alt tag (i.e. spacer gifs, etc.)

alt=" " (that' s two quotation marks side by side with no space inbetween. The use of alt=" " (with the space between quote marks) is not recommended due to issues with screen readers and other accessbility devices.

On another note, when specifying margins on the body tag and they all have the same numeric value, you can do this...

margin:0;

Instead of..

margin-top: 0px;
margin-right: 0px;
margin-bottom: 0px;
marginl-left: 0px;

Anytime you have " 0" as a value, the identifier is not required (i.e. px, em, %, etc.).

Here is the ultimate " 0" page margin fix. This works in all browsers that I' ve tested and probably others that have not been tested. ;)

body {
top:0;
left:0;
margin:0;
padding:0;
}



abbeyvet -> RE: Where and how to begin the SEO process? (5/27/2003 18:50:33)

quote:

body {
position:absolute;
top:0;
left:0;
margin:0;
padding:0;
}


Just one comment on that - which I am sure works great 99% of the time.

But......

I recently had an issue with a site - CSS validated, HTML validated - where no matter what I did a background image on an absolutely positioned header <div> refused to show up in Mozilla or Opera and repeatedly disappeared and then reappeared as the page was reloaded in IE6. I nearly went insane trying to figure out why.

Then I removed the position:absolute from the body selector in the stylesheet and everything was fine




pageoneresults -> RE: Where and how to begin the SEO process? (5/27/2003 18:57:20)

Katherine, I really want to say that I Love You but that would not be appropriate in a forum setting such as this. I' ve been attempting to track down that bug now for the past few months and low and behold, you are correct. Removing the position:absolute; now allows the top tiling image (inside a div) to tile across the page as it should. I too was seeing the image appear and then disappear. You are the babe!



abbeyvet -> RE: Where and how to begin the SEO process? (5/27/2003 19:04:46)

[:D]

I was pretty happy too - it was really doing my head in!

Glad I inadvertantly helped!



Page: [1]

Valid CSS!




Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI
0.15625