Are the use of tables with CSS a NO-NO? (Full Version)

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paul rayner -> Are the use of tables with CSS a NO-NO? (5/22/2003 7:07:31)

I' ve followed with interest lately, the use of CSS for menus and other threads. But, I' m a bit confused.

If you use a CSS menu, and want to also use FP includes, I think you have to do it via a table.

But, in http://www.sitepoint.com/books/css1/css1.pdf, and also other sources, they bag using tables, because they slow things down.

Am I reading too much, or is it a valid concern? Have I got it all wrong? IS there a better way?

Cheers

Paul



abbeyvet -> RE: Are the use of tables with CSS a NO-NO? (5/22/2003 7:29:45)

First off using tables with CSS is not a no-no - though using tables for layout is not the best way to go. Tables are still very important for presenting tabular data.

quote:

If you use a CSS menu, and want to also use FP includes, I think you have to do it via a table.


No, you don' t have to do it using a table if you are using a css layout. You can include a menu include page in a div on the final page.

Basically not using tables does not mean not using ' containers' for various elements of the page.

Separating various elements of a page previously required tables as containers for page elements because of the poor browser support for css. This has changed quite dramatically. It is now possible to create containers with css and it is a good way to go.

It is perfectly possible to use css to style text and other stuff like that and to continue using tables for your layout, most people start using css like this. Moving to css for layout is a bigger step but one worth making.

One of the best sets of tutorials for this that I have found is here



gorilla -> RE: Are the use of tables with CSS a NO-NO? (5/22/2003 12:54:01)

Abbeyvey is completely correct. Using tables is not a " no no." How else for goodness sake would we present tabular data? [:p]

I think that it important when you go to what I will call " CSS advocacy" sites to retain a sense of proportion, even if some of those writing or posting there do not. - Sometimes you get the impression that some of those writing would like to abolish tables completely. There are very big advantages to using CSS, but it is at first a little tricky. Well what of that - it took you time to learn to use FrontPage did it not?[;)]

Do what is most convenient for you, I encourage you to use CSS as much as possible, you will very quickly come to wonder how you ever did without it. But it is after all your life, your (or your client' s) site. So don' t allow yourself to be browbeaten either.

Jesper Krogh
Foreningen bag gorilla
København
May 22 2002

Postscriptum: Let us reduce anxiety with laughter. When I was first learning to write in English I used to call it

quote:

" browbitten"
and not " browbeaten" - then I wondered why my English speaking friends would smile. Well my son has justed started to learn English and he does the same mistake! Maybe it is something that he has copied and pasted from the back pocket of his genes.[8D]

JK



Thomas Brunt -> RE: Are the use of tables with CSS a NO-NO? (5/22/2003 17:43:18)

I agree about the brow beating.

Yes, it' s a good idea to learn to lay out pages with css if you feel like expanding into that, but do note that SitePoint' s html newsletter is layed out in tables.

I got my first real web job because I could use css to lay out a page. The guy who hired me said that tables would be gone in a year. That was when IE3 was hot and new. Can' t remember how many years ago that was, but it was long before OutFront was a twinkle in my eye.

Table design will become less prevelent, but there' s too much of it in existence to think that it will become unsupported. Look at what happened when NN 6.0 tried nonbackwards compatibility. It was the biggest failure in browser history. A browser that can' t see table design layouts is a browser that can' t see very much of the web. That may be less true in a coupl of years, but it won' t be false.

There' s lots of neat things you can do with a bit of css code in a table or a td tag. Anyone who tells you that' s the wrong way to build a site is being dogmatic.



paul rayner -> RE: Are the use of tables with CSS a NO-NO? (5/23/2003 19:48:24)

Thanx again to all for some great insight.

Apologies for posting to the wrong area.



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