Not to be moved.....a dot dash question (Full Version)

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DaAngel -> Not to be moved.....a dot dash question (5/26/2003 5:56:35)

This question is here for reference. It should not be moved by a moderator.


A dot - dash question..........


so what works best now days http://www.thiscarwash.com

or http://www.this-car-wash.com

and who has the legal right to the name This Car Wash, when included as a company name on the site?



abbeyvet -> RE: Not to be moved.....a dot dash question (5/26/2003 7:53:09)

Actually I am going to move this, it is more appropriate for the Web Business Matters and SEO forum.



Gil -> RE: Not to be moved.....a dot dash question (5/26/2003 8:33:05)

quote:

and who has the legal right to the name This Car Wash, when included as a company name on the site?


Is this a trick question?

The owner of This Car Wash* has all legal rights to the name.

* The name not the car wash [:D]

http://www.bitlaw.com/internet/webpage.html



Eli -> RE: Not to be moved.....a dot dash question (5/26/2003 13:19:55)

in marketing terms thiscarwash.com is prefereable because the dashes in this-car-wash.com can be a hinderance. Also it would the first thing that someone would type between the two of them. My advise, by both and mirror the main site.



DaAngel -> RE: Not to be moved.....a dot dash question (5/26/2003 15:16:40)

I knew it would be moved[:(]. lmao

I was hoping someone might let me know how the different Search engines might pick up on the different names.

Simles, A few of the larger companies can obtain rights to domain names on trade mark issuses alone. [:)]A few of them forgot about .dk



abbeyvet -> RE: Not to be moved.....a dot dash question (5/26/2003 15:43:26)

quote:

A few of the larger companies can obtain rights to domain names on trade mark issuses alone. A few of them forgot about .dk


I am not to clear where you are coming from here, but I think what you mean is that by snapping up unused domains of large corporations with highly trafficed sites, you might be able to pick up some traffic by getting your names into search engines?

I suppose theoretically it is possible. But really the domain name - hyphenated or otherwise - contributes such a tiny amout to an sites importance from a search engine point of view that I doubt it.

Lets just say you manage to get it up there though, there are still problems.

First off just because the ' forgot' to buy the domain does not mean that they could not still exert rights to it, though I do not claim to know anything about the law regarding this in Denmark.

Secondly if you were using such a domain to drive traffic to another domain, unless the two businesses were almost identical in what they offered, you would be getting such untargetted traffic that all it would do is cost you bandwidth.

Thirdly if you are using this sort of measure to drive traffic to another site, then search engines are likely to take a pretty dim view of that. How would they ever know? These companies undoubtedly have people whose job it is to monitor their listings in all the major SE' s. I doubt they would be slow to point something like this out to, say, Google. That would mean not only the site driving the traffic being delisted, but almost certainly the site to which the traffic is being driven getting the boot too.

Call me a simple soul but I have always felt that in the end is the best way to get good SE positions is by having good relevant content on your pages. It may be less interesting as a tactic than using more elaborate and inventive methods, but it has the great beneifit of being aimed at users as well as SEs, who after all are the people who really matter, and taking up much less time that dreaming up other ways would.




Gil -> RE: Not to be moved.....a dot dash question (5/26/2003 16:00:50)

quote:

Simles, A few of the larger companies can obtain rights to domain names on trade mark issuses alone. A few of them forgot about .dk


So?



DaAngel -> RE: Not to be moved.....a dot dash question (5/26/2003 17:20:05)

The reason I mentioned the trade mark issue was because easyjet has recently being trying to ban anyone from using the word easy in any domain name.

Which is madness gone insane if you ask me.

I was wondering because being a site owner, do I have or does anyone else have the legal right to complain if they have a domain name and someone else comes along and adds say a " s" to it and registers it? Do trade mark issues come into play, even if the site or domain name is not a trade mark.

I have no wish to rip someone off, nor do I wish to ripped off.

As regards to the car wash question. The dashes are supposed to help SE' s identify the words in the domain name for ranking( well at least that is what I read somewhere).



Eli -> RE: Not to be moved.....a dot dash question (5/27/2003 4:00:40)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaAngel

The reason I mentioned the trade mark issue was because easyjet has recently being trying to ban anyone from using the word easy in any domain name.

Which is madness gone insane if you ask me.

I was wondering because being a site owner, do I have or does anyone else have the legal right to complain if they have a domain name and someone else comes along and adds say a " s" to it and registers it? Do trade mark issues come into play, even if the site or domain name is not a trade mark.


As I undertand it, it really doesn' t effect tradmarks law but it could effect IP rights. For example, if you' re setting yourself up as a car hire company called " easycars.com" (and are in oppossion to easycar.com) they will rip you to shreads. But ... if its a personal home page, being stored for future use, or has nothing to do with hireing cars that you have a better chance to hold your own.



Mojo -> RE: Not to be moved.....a dot dash question (5/29/2003 1:19:07)

I have been going through this recently and how found out that there are not many lawyers skilled in internet law.

I hired a firm in Chicago for some preliminary work. Here is what they told me:

If they have both a trademark and a website and *then* you come along with a potentially " confusingly similar" domain name *AND* you are competing with them for business - You *will* lose and likely have to pay damages to the company (damages can include ALL sales that you have made - not just profit... sales).

If they have a trademark and *no* website and *then* you come along with a site that competes with their offline business model - You will likely lose the lawsuit, but will also likely *not* pay any damages. Just lose your domain and the right to do business under that name.

If they have no trademark, but do have a web site and *then* you come along - Lawsuit goes either way. My attorney told me only the lawyers really win in this situation. I was not in this situation so I did not get many details for this case.

Basically, if they have a trademark and you are going to compete with them using a part of their trademark - Be prepared for a lawsuit with real possibilities that you willl suffer a painful loss.

Now, if you are not competing with them it is basically their tough luck. Anti-company sites are also fine, as long as you are not making any money off it.

Anyhow, I paid $700 for 2 hours and I got basic common sense. Actually, I got tons of obscure details that don' t relate here.



DaAngel -> RE: Not to be moved.....a dot dash question (5/29/2003 13:48:20)

When I set my first site up I went out of my way to try to make sure I had my own name that it did not compete with any others.

However after the site had been up about three months I noticed someone else with the same domain name only with an " s" . They had the domain name first. We did exchange a few emails, and although we were competing in the same geographical area, no major fuss was made of it.

Someone else has a similar domain name to my own, also, they had it first. However, it is pointed towards a Boston company. I can' t see any conflict of interest arising as long as this remains the case.



Mojo -> RE: Not to be moved.....a dot dash question (5/29/2003 22:26:04)

I wish I could find the link, but I can' t. A tech site I used to visit had their domain name plural (' s' ). The non-plural name was purchased 6 months before the tech site (almost 8 years ago) by another tech company who did not use it.

A year ago the tech site got a nasty lawyer letter demanding the domain be turned over to them. They had recently begun using the non-plural name. Of course, the tech site told them to screw themselves.

When the dust was settled the tech site lost their domain flatly. No compensation or anything.

I don' t remember anything about trademarks. Like I said, I wish I could find the links.

You may never have problems, but it would be very frustrating to develop and market a successful site only to have it taken away once it is popular.

You may never have problems, but why risk it?



gorilla -> RE: Not to be moved.....a dot dash question (5/30/2003 11:07:09)


quote:

ORIGINAL: abbeyvet

quote:

A few of the larger companies can obtain rights to domain names on trade mark issuses alone. A few of them forgot about .dk



First off just because the ' forgot' to buy the domain does not mean that they could not still exert rights to it, though I do not claim to know anything about the law regarding this in Denmark. .....

Call me a simple soul but I have always felt that in the end is the best way to get good SE positions is by having good relevant content on your pages. It may be less interesting as a tactic than using more elaborate and inventive methods, but it has the great beneifit of being aimed at users as well as SEs, who after all are the people who really matter, and taking up much less time that dreaming up other ways would.


I read this with interest I think some points to bear in mind:

The laws of copyright, registered designs, trademarks and so on vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction - a point made above but worth noting. The various international conventions that apply do NOT state that a foreign applicant will get the same rights to anything that apply in their jurisdiction they merely state that the National legislation and the implementation thereof should treat all applicants equally irrespective of nationality.

The part of the quote that I have outlined in blue should be required reading.

As regards the law in Denmark it is very simple - if somebody attempts to deceive the public by purchasing a domain and then using it to trade to - well in the English speaking world the equivalent legal concept is that of ' passing off' - then they will be hammered. The penalties are very severe.

Finally if the reference to " forgetting" is to the incident that I believe it to be - they did not forget to buy the domain, they forgot to pay the registration fee.

Cherubino Di Marco
Spokesgorilla ad interim
København
Danmark
Maj 30 2003







DaAngel -> RE: Not to be moved.....a dot dash question (5/30/2003 12:09:14)

As far as the .dk thing goes. I have thought about it this way also, if their trademark name is so important to them, then all TLD' s should be registered.

If not, they are being allowed to hold sway over domain names without actually paying a cent for them. They are also stopping other people from using the domain name in a fashion that may have nothing to do with their trademarked business.


I would have thought, Mojojo, that the tech firm would have won, since they could prove that they had been operating as a company with an identifible brand, before the other company decided to use the name.



abbeyvet -> RE: Not to be moved.....a dot dash question (5/30/2003 12:20:38)

quote:

If not, they are being allowed to hold sway over domain names without actually paying a cent for them.


Not all TLDs are allocated in such a simple manner, that is you cannot necessarily just get one because

a. you want it
b. it is available.


For example in Ireland, where the .ie TLD is used, to register a domain you must show what right you have to register it. So, for example, if I wanted to register the name inkkdesign.ie I would have to show legal documentation showing that InKK Design was a company registered in my name, or was a registered business name, registered in my name. I would also need documentation showing that it was an active company - a bank or accountants letter stating same.

Add to this the fact that the companies office here are fairly strict about who can register a company - you cannot just wheel up and pay your fee.

If I was a US company I would need to have an Irish subsidiary registered with the Companies Office here before I could register my name with a .ie extension.

I can only register a place name following a resolution of the local authority, that is following a vote of elected representives, giving me permission to so do. That permission has to be obtained again at each renewal.

Personal names can only be registered by people who trade on their personal names and who are recognised by them. So if I ran Katherine Nolan Insurance Broker, I would not have a hope. If I was Katherine Nolan the well known actress, they would consider it.


Ireland is not the only place where this sort of thing applies, so because a domain is not registered with a specific extension does not mean the company overlooked it. They may have chosen not to, they always can in the future as nobody else will really have a right to.



Gil -> RE: Not to be moved.....a dot dash question (5/30/2003 12:23:21)

Small point: TLD (Top Level Domains) are .com, .net, .org, etc. - the company name is a second level domain...



DaAngel -> RE: Not to be moved.....a dot dash question (5/30/2003 12:38:23)

I read about trouble brewing in Ireland over the way domain names are handled. I did not go to deep into it, since I no longer live there, but noted that a few of the top people supposedly had their backs put out of joint.

If you are interested http://www.theregister.co.uk had a couple of good articles concerning Irish domain names and how they were being handled.

As always abbeyvet, you make a fine point.

Smiles, perhaps I should have said all company TLD names. [&:]



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