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_gail
Posts: 2874
From: So FL
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Tables > CSS conversion: will they do it any time soon? - 6/1/2003 10:20:13
The threads about tables and css absolutely intrigue me, particularly when discussions center around timelines regarding the diminishing use of tables for positioning in favor of full use and implementation of css.
I had to download something from this site: http://www.myflorida.com/dor/
I personally think the site it quite a good one and decided to look at the source code. It contains css, javascript and seems to have code addressing NN issues. But I also note there are lots and lots of tables. And there is lots and lots of code which many folk in these forums would no doubt call " bloated."
I visited the site using a dial-up connection with a 56 K modem. AOL 8.0 was the browser. Pages loaded extremely fast, displayed well, etc.
I' m sure countless hours and expense have been spent developing this large site. Question:
Do you think the FL Department of Revenue, and other large agencies and companies who have sites constructed like this one, are going to quickly abandon tables or convert to full css any time soon?
gail
< Message edited by _gail -- 6/1/2003 12:33 PM >
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abbeyvet
Posts: 5095
From: Kilkenny Ireland
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RE: Tables > CSS conversion: will they do it any tim... - 6/1/2003 11:30:26
I think sites like this will convert as and when they come up for a new design anyway, the life of a site design is how long? Who knows. I tend to tell clients about 3-4 years or so.
Sites like this one, which is almost certainly backed by a content management system using a database would be relavively easy to convert, since it would probably involve little more than changing some templates.
Or they may decide to stick with tables, it is a choice thing at the end of the day after all.
As a little survey I went to Yahoo and looked at the new additions for Saturday May 31st. Couldn' t find one CSS site - lots of Flash, some really poor sites but no CSS layouts anywhere. Went to www.coolhomepages.com and looked at the new additions - hard to find anything there that is not Flash!
The number of sites using a pure CSS layout is still VERY low, and most of them are web related in one way or another.
This page has an annual look at how members of the W3C are doing themselves. Of 423 sites only 28 - 6.5% - are laid out using CSS! There are links to those that are on the page.
So it is not exactly a stampede. Bear in mind though, that is is really only in the last 6-12 months or so that it became a feasible option, as the prevalence of browsers with adequate support reached a critical mass.
< Message edited by abbeyvet -- 6/1/2003 11:33 AM >
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pageoneresults
Posts: 1001
From: Orange, CA USA
Status: offline
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RE: Tables > CSS conversion: will they do it any tim... - 6/1/2003 13:42:07
I personally feel that CSS is still in its infancy stages. As Katherine said, it was just recently (past 2 years) that browsers are starting to offer more support for CSS.
I think tables will always be a part of our design, no matter what we do. At least for another 5 years. Tabular data is difficult to recreate using all CSS. In fact, the tests I' ve done required more CSS code than HTML code to recreate the tabular effect.
Don' t let all this CSS talk distract you from our main mission and that is to build websites that work in most up to date browsers. Attempting to support old browsers in today' s environment is a major step backwards. If you can build a site and have it fall apart gracefully in older browsers then you have done your job.
Until FP offers full support for CSS1 and CSS2, many here will have to rely on the features that FP provides. If you' ve crossed the WYSIWYG line and are now fiddling in the html, then you will be one step ahead as you can do things others won' t be able to. Being able to manually adjust code has been the biggest benefit of using FP and CSS. Without the manual adjustments, some things just don' t work the way you want them to.
One thing you can do to help trim out your code when using tables is to style them with CSS. Background colors, borders, padding, etc. can all be handled through your external CSS file.
< Message edited by pageoneresults -- 6/1/2003 1:43 PM >
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_gail
Posts: 2874
From: So FL
Status: offline
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RE: Tables > CSS conversion: will they do it any tim... - 6/2/2003 10:20:44
Well certainly if something isn' t broken it doesn' t need fixin' . At the same time there is always room for improvement. I have no doubt that CSS will come to the forefront and eventually take precedence over (though not necessarily replace) tables. I just don' t think it will happen as quickly as some may think.
I fully understand the significant benefits of going full CSS, particularly for those who create large, more complex sites than folk like me. I' d be learning and switching if I had, or even hoped to have, those types of jobs. I don' t!
The replies in this thread have been VERY helpful, clarifying and putting the issue into perspective.
gail
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