beat aol cache? (Full Version)

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missa88 -> beat aol cache? (6/8/2003 22:58:44)

ok, i' ve searched the forums but cannot find anything on this....maybe i overlooked it...

BUT...i did hours of research on beating aol cache....my client cannot see the changes to her website on aol...i had her clear out her cache and she saw it...but she is worried that other aol users arent going to clear their cache, so they' ll see the old site or a while....which is true...

so i set all the meta expire tags and such (which do nothing on aol) and her server does use http1.1 (but it is not working the way i read it should)

WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO BEAT AOL CACHE? anyone?

i' ve read so much and cant seem to find anything that will help me out...why do message boards always stay " fresh" but i cant get my website fresh?

thanks in advance, i' m sure i wont get any short answers, hehe



Justjay -> RE: beat aol cache? (6/8/2003 23:32:31)

I think the only way to beat the AOL cache is to educate the AOL user...

I am looking forward to seeing what others say



missa88 -> RE: beat aol cache? (6/9/2003 1:32:28)

yeah, i agree....it would save me time and money on the phone!

it' s hard to tell a client " oh well, if some aol users are clueless, thats their problem"

another thing i run into is " then how come the online newspapers i read are always refreshed but my website isnt?" thats a hard one to answer for me right now, because i dont know why...



SerenityNet -> RE: beat aol cache? (6/9/2003 1:52:46)

It seems to me a page like the one below might be a workaround to the refresh problem. I can' t say about AOL, but I had a similar problem at work. Pages that came from a response.redirect always seemed to be current, while other pages displayed from cache (no matter what I did in the meta tags). 

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=" Content-Type"  content=" text/html; charset=windows-1252" >
<title>AOL Page Refresh</title>
</head>
<%
dim updated
if session(" updated" )<>1 then
session(" updated" )=1
response.redirect " AOLRefresh.asp" 
end if
%>
<body>
Change me and see if I refresh on the next load.
</body>
</html>


PS. The above page is an asp page.



Justjay -> RE: beat aol cache? (6/9/2003 1:54:31)

OK well about the News sites - it all depends on how they have designed their sites...but this I know for sure... AOL downloads the top visited sites by AOL users and caches these sites on AOL servers to reduce AOL' s bandwidth. The User' s stays the same, a hit to an AOL server or the actual site server are the same thing. AS for the way AOL browser caches stuff...all that comes to my mind is a >black hole<.

You could have a blurb on the site explaining to AOL users that are " clueless" how things work and what to do it may help[;)]



_gail -> RE: beat aol cache? (6/9/2003 7:03:31)

quote:

to educate the AOL user...



Here' s a suggested way how educate the AOL user. The issue doesn' t only involve the cache. The problem arises because of the compressed graphic settings which are usually turned on by default in the AOL browser.

I placed a link about the AOL problem on each of these pages, informing AOL users about the compression problem.

http://www.gtbdesign.com/camera/why.htm (near bottom of page)

http://members.aol.com/photofavorites/collection.htm (top of page)


If you wish, also inform site visitors how to shut off the compressed graphics setting.

Settings menu > Preferences > Internet Properties > Web Graphics > select Never Compress Graphics

The reason AOL compresses images is to " speed up" web surfing for AOL users. The majorirty have slow, dial-up connections. If you provide instructions for site visitors on how to shut off the compressed image setting, be sure to say that pages may take a longer time to load. Also remind them how to clean the cache.

Most of my students are AOL users. For the most part, they could care less about techie stuff. AOL users tend to just want to surf the net and write and receive email. So do educate them by providing complete instructions.

gail



missa88 -> RE: beat aol cache? (6/10/2003 13:18:24)

so if i name all my pages with a .asp extension instead of .htm and add the response.redirect then i' ll always have fresh pages....correct?

will contact forms work on a .asp extension?

making them all .asp will not " hurt" my html coding, right?



Justjay -> RE: beat aol cache? (6/10/2003 13:46:13)

Are you running on an IIS server?



Gil -> RE: beat aol cache? (6/10/2003 14:22:16)

quote:

so if i name all my pages with a .asp extension instead of .htm and add the response.redirect then i' ll always have fresh pages....correct?
Not with AOL users

quote:

will contact forms work on a .asp extension?


Not FP forms - they will not work on asp page



Justjay -> RE: beat aol cache? (6/10/2003 14:32:01)

quote:

Not FP forms - they will not work on asp page


Just to clarify some language - you can still build a Form in FP that will work with ASP, but ASP will be your form handler. If, however, you are using FrontPage Server Extensions as your form handler, your form will need to have an HTML or HTM extension.



SerenityNet -> RE: beat aol cache? (6/10/2003 23:23:40)

quote:

so if i name all my pages with a .asp extension instead of .htm and add the response.redirect then i' ll always have fresh pages....correct? - missa

Not with AOL users - gil


In my experience with IE and Netscape, the response.redirect re-loaded a page as if I had pressed the refresh button. That is, I always got the most recent page. Is my observation wrong or is it just that the AOL browser doesn' t do it. (I' m not addressing poor resolution graphics here, just current page content.) This post has got my curiosity going.

If the response.redirect isn' t the answer to assuring current content then how about javascript. Would putting a button like 
<!-- Begin
document.write(' <form><input type=button value=" Refresh"  onClick=" history.go()" ></form>' )
//  End -->
or some sort of if statement (like I showed with the asp above) at page load make the AOL browser get current content? It seems like there just has to be something!



missa88 -> RE: beat aol cache? (6/10/2003 23:47:30)

refreshing the page will not work on AOL with regular html....if you press " refresh" or code it to refresh, it doesnt beat the cache, it just refreshes the cache...kinda dumb...

the only thing i found so far is naming the pages .asp ....it beats aol cache on my test page...

i did not put in the code by SerenityNet....i just named it with a .asp extension and it beats aol cache...kinda weird to me, but....IT WORKS !!

(this all relates to text and layout changes)



Gil -> RE: beat aol cache? (6/10/2003 23:48:25)

quote:

In my experience with IE and Netscape, the response.redirect re-loaded a page as if I had pressed the refresh button. That is, I always got the most recent page. Is my observation wrong or is it just that the AOL browser doesn' t do it. (I' m not addressing poor resolution graphics here, just current page content.) This post has got my curiosity going.


The response.redirect forces the browser to reload the page from the server - the problem is AOL (Almost on Line) loads the page from the server and caches it on it' s server - so the resp[onse.rediredt and the meta refresh tag and the little javascript you posted will cause the browser to refresh FROM the AOL SERVER - IE: the cached copy.



SerenityNet -> RE: beat aol cache? (6/11/2003 0:12:08)

quote:

Original: Gil
...to refresh FROM the AOL SERVER..

So what' s a body to do? And what' s with missa' s recent experience - is she just getting lucky with cache refresh timing or maybe just a new page name?

Is that the only answer - rename all your changed pages, so AOL has to get the new " page" & content. I guess with FP' s hyperlink updating, it might not be that daunting of a task (unless it is an include you are changing). But who is willing to do that?

Is there really no (good) solution?



Gil -> RE: beat aol cache? (6/11/2003 7:25:23)

quote:

And what' s with missa' s recent experience


I' m not sure - maybe AOL doesn' t cache .asp?

quote:

Is there really no (good) solution?


I haven' t found one yet. Maybe AOL will continue to lose market share and die a slow death?



Justjay -> RE: beat aol cache? (6/11/2003 7:35:03)

quote:

Maybe AOL will continue to lose market share and die a slow death?


We can all hope... :-)[:@]



Gil -> RE: beat aol cache? (6/11/2003 9:41:57)

I knew I had this URL somewhere - took a while to find it (I gotta get better orgnized[:(])

http://www.mnot.net/cache_docs/



SerenityNet -> RE: beat aol cache? (6/11/2003 11:45:32)

Gil, thank you. This is great.

Unless someone does it sooner, I' m going to try and read this through in the next week or so and create a full (cover all bases and methods) header for a no-cache page (one for htm pages and one for asp) to post here for review and then to put in my snippets file.

Thanks again,
Andrew



ohiocommonsense -> RE: beat aol cache? (9/3/2003 9:17:10)

I also do web design but do not use frontpage often.

I keep my aol account for reasons
1.I like the filing cabinet
2.ALOT of my customers use AOL
3.AOL will give free months of service if you call and complain(IT IS ALMOST FREE!)

I recommend you do the following:
Get a trial account or buy the cheapest plan from AOL
From the AOL BROWSER simply hold down your "CONTROL KEY" in the lower left of your keyboard and click on AOL RELOAD (the little orange round arrow to the left of the AOL address bar(where your http://blahblahDOTcom address shows)

THIS WILL CLEAR OUT ALL PROXY CACHE IN AOL AND YOUR NEWLY CREATED PAGE WILL BE VIEWED MUCH FASTER BY YOUR CUSTOMER!

I usually do this everyday for about two weeks after putting in a brand new website, new website owners go view their site repeatedly at first(think I am lying? If you have the ability on your server just look at the IP history!)

You can also make your clients do this themselves. (I used "printscreen" pasted into MSPAINT, circled the little orange reload arrow in the aol screen in red with my mouse and brush tool and pasted a keyboard with the control key circled to send to malcontents!-This works well as I save it in BMP and paste it into the mail and attach it as an attachment)

Also AOL webmaster is FULL of all sorts of INFO for webmasters:
http://webmaster.info.aol.com/

Here is an article relating to your request:(but my solution works better and saves time in the long run)
http://webmaster.info.aol.com/caching.html



gabriste -> RE: beat aol cache? (9/9/2004 23:11:53)

beating aol cache is easy... I use asp, so heres the asp code... in asp you just put a function in a global include file : 

Function LinkMorph()
LinkMorph = "?z="
for i = 1 to 5
   x = int(rnd*10)+50
   LinkMorph=LinkMorph & chr(x)
next
End Function


then on your links just do something like 

<a href="link.asp<%=LinkMorph%>">


what this does is gives the page a new url on every click
you end up with stuff like this in the address bar
www.blah.com/link.asp?z=fghtk
www.blah.com/link.asp?z=hgfkj
www.blah.com/link.asp?z=fgjhg

Aol sees 3 different pages, so does browser cache...

you can also tack the code at the end of image names too to keep them fresh

you can do the same thing with javascript but I hate client side script so some other dev monkey here can whip that up...



Taz -> RE: beat aol cache? (9/10/2004 5:38:36)

quote:

ORIGINAL: _gail
The reason AOL compresses images is to " speed up" web surfing for AOL users. The majorirty have slow, dial-up connections.

Because they are with AOL. [sm=lol.gif]

Much easier to educate AOL users by telling them to not use AOL at all. [image]http://ganjataz.com/Forum/images/smiles/laff.gif[/image]



Giomanach -> RE: beat aol cache? (9/10/2004 5:51:36)

quote:

other dev monkey here can whip that up... 


<script language="JavaScript" type="text/javascript">
function findAOL{
if{ appname=(AOL) then
alert('Time You Changed ISP');
}
else{
alert('Good Boy/Girl, here's a sweetie mix');
}
</script>


[:D]

The Script WONT Work...



shawna -> RE: beat aol cache? (9/10/2004 10:23:23)

When I had AOL, in order to see updates I had to minimize the AOL browser and open IE. In IE if I didn't see my updates I would hit refresh & then always saw my updates immediately. Then copy the web address out of the address bar & minimize IE and bring AOL browser back up. Then I would paste the URL into the web address bar in AOL to view it and I would be able to see the updates in AOL. I used to bang my head against the wall when clients with AOL would call and ask me why I had not done the updates and I finally figured this out. It gave me an answer for them but it really doesn't take care of the problem for the rest of the world using AOL.

Actually seeing the most current updates was and maybe still is a pain for people who save a site to favorites or bookmark sites regardless of browsers because every once in a while I get a call asking if I made updates. Usually is a spa or salon or restaurant and the person will argue the pricing because they are looking at a website they bookmarked. In order to solve some of the problems I now put in a line or two stating "To see the most updated version, please refresh your browser now" which I think looks very unprofessional but it has helped a lot.



Peppergal -> RE: beat aol cache? (9/10/2004 14:19:28)

quote:

Maybe AOL will continue to lose market share and die a slow death?


No, I'd rather see it die a fast and spectacular death. Those jerks have blacklisted my ISP AGAIN and I have a client on AOL who cannot receive any email sent from my ISP directly from my machine. I have to use online email like gmail or yahoo to communicate with this guy which is a pain in the butt.



ohiocommonsense -> RE: beat aol cache? (9/10/2004 14:36:25)

I posted earlier in this thread.
It is NOT all that hard to clear AOL proxy cache...aol explains it all at their webmaster site.

I know holding Ctrl and hitting arrow works but....

http://webmaster.info.aol.com/caching.html

http://webmaster.info.aol.com/faq.html



ohiocommonsense -> RE: beat aol cache? (9/10/2004 14:47:49)

Okay...AOL is NEVER going to be eliminated from mainstream internet. It is not that hard to work around it. Have the client open his frigging mailbox, at top right click on MAIL OPTIONS then READ then SPAM FOLDER, HIGHLIGHT YOUR BLOCKED PIECE OF MAIL, CLICK ON THIS IS NOT SPAM and client will receive email.Question is what disreputable host do you use that all mail from your IP is blocked(called "whitelist") anyways here is the place t figure out all aol mail problems :
Oh-they too can be fixed through AOL if your clients are too, well...er....BUSY to check their spam folder
http://postmaster.info.aol.com/
your end especially
http://postmaster.info.aol.com/selfhelp/index.html
quote:

ORIGINAL: Peppergal

quote:

Maybe AOL will continue to lose market share and die a slow death?


No, I'd rather see it die a fast and spectacular death. Those jerks have blacklisted my ISP AGAIN and I have a client on AOL who cannot receive any email sent from my ISP directly from my machine. I have to use online email like gmail or yahoo to communicate with this guy which is a pain in the butt.

quote:

No, I'd rather see it die a fast and spectacular death. Those jerks have blacklisted my ISP AGAIN and I have a client on AOL who cannot receive any email sent from my ISP directly from my machine. I have to use online email like gmail or yahoo to communicate with this guy which is a pain in the



Giomanach -> RE: beat aol cache? (9/10/2004 14:56:33)

Scuse me numpty.....

It's the IP address of Karens ISP, not Karens website....

Karen send emails from her domain, but to do this, she must use her ISPs SMTP server, of which is blacklisted by AOL.

The emails do not get classed as SPAM, they just get bounced back saying undeliverable

Sheesh....

Dan



Peppergal -> RE: beat aol cache? (9/10/2004 15:13:56)

Sir,

I have been battling AOHELL on this for some time. My mail never reaches my client or any other AOHELL user. It bounces back to me by AOHELL. I have called them to complain and they basically thumbed their nose at me and told me that I need to complain to MY ISP because it's letting others send spam and until my ISP eliminates them, ANYONE using MY ISP is blacklisted and mail from ANYONE ON MY ISP will be rejected by AOHELL.

Here is the tripe that they send me when I attempt to send mail to an AOHELL user:

quote:


The original message was received at Wed, 8 Sep 2004 19:55:00 -0400
from dial-xx-xxx-xx-xx.myispserver.net [xx.xxx.xx.xx]

----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<myclient@aol.com>
(reason: 554-(RLY:B2) The information presently available to AOL indicates this)

----- Transcript of session follows -----
451 4.4.1 reply: read error from mailin-02.mx.aol.com.
451 4.4.1 reply: read error from mailin-04.mx.aol.com.
... while talking to mailin-03.mx.aol.com.:
554-(RLY:B2) The information presently available to AOL indicates this 554-server is transmitting unsolicited e-mail to AOL. Based on AOL's 554-Unsolicited Bulk E-mail policy at http://www.aol.com/info/bulkemail.html 554-AOL cannot accept further e-mail transactions from this server.

554-Please have your ISP/ASP or server admin call AOL at 1-888-212-5537,
554 or visit http://postmaster.info.aol.com for more information.
... while talking to mailin-01.mx.aol.com.:

QUIT

554-(RLY:B2) The information presently available to AOL indicates this
554-server is transmitting unsolicited e-mail to AOL. Based on AOL's
554-Unsolicited Bulk E-mail policy at http://www.aol.com/info/bulkemail.html
554-AOL cannot accept further e-mail transactions from this server.
554-Please have your ISP/ASP or server admin call AOL at 1-888-212-5537,
554 or visit http://postmaster.info.aol.com for more information.
554 5.0.0 Service unavailable

Reporting-MTA: dns; dh2024.appliedi.net
Arrival-Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 19:55:00 -0400

Final-Recipient: RFC822; myclient@aol.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.5.0
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 554-(RLY:B2) The information presently available to AOL indicates this
Last-Attempt-Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 19:55:07 -0400



Your message was rather obnoxious with all the red text and your comment about a "Friggin" mailbox...especially from someone who obviously sounds so authoratative and frankly, hasn't a clue what they're talking about . This is beyond a simple spam folder adjustement. AOHELL won't give my client the option of marking me as a "safe" sender because my client never receives my mail. AOHELL decides to play Email God and reject it.

<grumbling>



dpf -> RE: beat aol cache? (9/10/2004 15:17:39)

quote:

Your message was rather obnoxious with all the red text and your comment about a "Friggin" mailbox

go girl..lol



Peppergal -> RE: beat aol cache? (9/10/2004 15:19:32)

What can I say? I'm Irish and p-oed. LOL



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