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wattle -> FP Includes & CSS (6/16/2003 23:13:31)

First off - I' m not good at ' tech' talk - I hope this question is understandable [&:]

I have styles between the <head> tags - am not using external style sheets (yet). Am using FP includes, three per page. I thought that the style settings on my main page would dictate how the font' s etc in the includes would appear but this does not seem to be the case. I copied the styles into my include pages and all is now well. Is this going about things the right way? Should I have styles in the include pages? It looks fine in the browser but I' ve only checked with IE5.5 at this stage.

I' m new to CSS & FP Includes and want to go about things in the right way. Another question - would any ' rules' for using CSS with FP Includes carry across to SSI' s?

Thanks
Wattle



wattle -> RE: FP Includes & CSS (6/16/2003 23:27:39)

Opps - never mind - I found what I was looking for in a search [8|] I also found that I am using embedded styles ... at least I think that is what I am using.

Note to Self: Search BEFORE posting.

Wattle [:o]



Webwork -> RE: FP Includes & CSS (6/19/2003 13:35:36)

Arrrgghhh. I was looking into this myself. My search skills must be lacking because I failed to find " the answer" .

Please provide a link to " the answer" .

I understand FP strips out everything in the <Head> of an include sooooo, since I' m a CSS beginner, can one link to an external style sheet in the body? I don' t think that' s what I' ve read. I think the external link must be in the head.

Soooo, is this a inheritance issue - where the include page <body> content - which is included - falls under the influence of the CSS (internal or external) of page it is included in?



wattle -> RE: FP Includes & CSS (6/20/2003 0:10:51)

Webwork - you sound far more advanced at CSS than I am [:D]

Here are the links to threads that helped me out re includes:

=====
Edit: My turn to: Arrgghh!! The links do not work as I just copied the search results. Anyway, I went to Advanced Search, looked for css include, set Time Filter to within 1 year, and return to 100 results. Sorry I don' t have the links!

There was a great thread on what style overrode what. In my case the embedded styles take precedence, which is actually what I do want to happen. Hopefully someone who has a clue can post explaining this or find the proper URL' s for the threads...
=====

Wattle



gorilla -> RE: FP Includes & CSS (6/20/2003 7:10:55)

Styles declared in an external style style sheet are overridden by styles declared in an internal stylesheet which are overridden by inline styles.

Med venlig hilsen

Karsten

Who is now the deputy spokesgorilla ' cos I believe in social mobility for all alpha gorillas and was delighted to discover that a dark night and a big stick are excellent ways of achieving this ..... muhaha .....

København
20 juni 2003



paperfish -> RE: FP Includes & CSS (6/20/2003 9:17:27)

I don' t use FP Includes, but I do use Server Side Includes (SSI) and external stylesheets (CSS). My Includes are normally text files with the required HTML tags.

An Include automatically display fonts and etc. according to the stylesheet for the page in which it is included - unless, as gorilla pointed out, the Include has inline styles.



paulie -> RE: FP Includes & CSS (6/20/2003 10:18:25)

Hey Paperfish,
When you say " my includes are normally text files with the required HTML tags" do you mean the extension of your include file(s) is " .txt" ? I didn' t know you could do that. Does it save time when the browser parses the page or anything, or does it just help you identify them visually when you' re browsing directories on your server or something?
Just curious,
Paulie



abbeyvet -> RE: FP Includes & CSS (6/20/2003 10:22:53)

I use .txt files too with both SSI and PHP includes. In the case of the later they can also include PHP code, it will parse fine as part of the final page.

You cannot do it with FP inlcudes though, they must be .htm/.html

It is possibly a little faster since the original files are not parsed, I am not sure, in my case it is more habit than anything else.



paulie -> RE: FP Includes & CSS (6/20/2003 10:44:58)

Thanks Abbyvet! I like to use includes for the efficiency they offer with site maintainence, but have always defaulted to the FP Normal mode when inserting them. If I worked a little harder, could I code those in HTML using ASP as server side includes? I should know this by now, but I don' t. It' s amazing - the list of stuff to grasp just gets longer, and longer, and....[&:]



ajdevies -> RE: FP Includes & CSS (6/20/2003 15:54:18)

In response to Wattle' s original questions and problems, based on my past week' s worth of aaaarrrrrgggggghhhhhhhssssss:

1. Includes have no " head" tags, so you cannot put styles in Includes in that sense. However........you can use ' inline' style tags within the body of the Include. That will get messy if you have a lot of Includes to edit in the future.

2. If you put your styles in the " head" tags of the page invoking (calling) the Includes, the Includes will inherit those styles, or whatever other styles are in effect (due to inline changes) at the location where the Include occurs.

3. You cannot put " style" tags in the body of a page, however you can use inline styles, e.g.: 


<p style=" font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: bigger: font-color: NeonPurple;" >
This is bigger Arial text in Neon Purple</p>


Tip: While I' m developing a page that will become an " Include" , I leave the " head" tags and any " style" tags or links to external style sheets in the " Include" page temporarily. This helps give a feel for how the " Include" will look once it' s embedded in the finished page. Once I have the desired results, I delete the " head" tags and anything between them.

The above tip also lets you know if an " inline" style is interferring with the " include" . Saved my backside several times by doing it this way.

<edit>Edited to prevent side scrolling.</edit>



paperfish -> RE: FP Includes & CSS (6/21/2003 12:25:37)

Hi Paulie,

In answer to your earlier question, I use .text for a couple of reasons:
1. Clearly identifies my includes - although they are all in their own directory
2. When double-clicked, they open in Notepad, not FP so I don' t inadvertently edit them with FP tools.

But the main reason I use .txt is because Abbeyvet recommended it a couple of years ago.

Thank you Katherine
Cheers



pageoneresults -> RE: FP Includes & CSS (6/22/2003 8:58:48)

quote:

You cannot do it with FP inlcudes though, they must be .htm/.html

Hi Katherine, can you expand on this one a little bit more? I' ve used FP Includes now for almost 8 years. In the past couple of years I' ve been using them with .asp extensions and have not had any issues. As long as they are being included into a page with the same file extension, I' ve not seen any problems, at least with the .asp.



abbeyvet -> RE: FP Includes & CSS (6/22/2003 9:07:30)

Sorry, I should have said that using .txt files does not work with FP includes.

My includes have no <head></head> section - they are just literally the snippet of text/html/code that will be included. That I know works fine with SSI and PHP include but not with FP includes.

I have never in my life used ASP, or had a site on a Windows server. so I just tend to forget about asp. Sorry.



wattle -> RE: FP Includes & CSS (6/22/2003 19:26:47)

Oh dear, I' ve gone back to being more confused about this than ever [:o]

On my include page I' ve got <head> tags, between these I' ve styles for fonts and hyperlinks. A description of what I' ve been doing is below (I did not realise that the head tags in includes were stripped)

On the includes I set the style on a hyperlink through normal view >hyperlink >style - and link looks like:
<a href=" ../link.htm" class=" type1" >

The includes go into the index page which also has styles between <head>. On the example above style type1 is the same in the include page as in the index page - is this why it is actually working?

My real dilemma is with another include. One of the styles (type3) is not the same on this as in the index page, yet when published, the style I' ve set in the include appears as I want it to be. How can this happen?

I' ve published the above (using FP) to a Win2K server / IIS and CuteFTP' d it to a Unix server / Apache and it looks fine on both though I' ve no idea why.

A sub-directory of this site will also be using includes and the files in this will be .asp extensions.

I' d really appreciate any help with this muddle before I do too much damage.

Wattle



abbeyvet -> RE: FP Includes & CSS (6/23/2003 4:50:50)

Without getting into the particular situation and why something is working or not working, I think the easiest thing is to skip to the solution.

It really is best to use an external stylesheet, and put into that everything that will be used in the site - in standard pages, include pages, whereever - rather than having styles in the <head></head> of the page at all.

It makes it easier to manage, easier to alter should you wish to in the future and is just all round more convenient and better.

Styles in the <head></head> of a page should be reserved for particular style instructions that refer to that page only, or which alter/override a style already in the style sheet for that page only.



wattle -> RE: FP Includes & CSS (6/23/2003 19:09:04)

quote:

It really is best to use an external stylesheet, and put into that everything that will be used in the site - in standard pages, include pages, wherever - rather than having styles in the <head></head> of the page at all.


Yes, agreed [:)] Have been giving myself a crash course when time allows and am finally beginning to have things sink in ... I could get to even enjoy using external stylesheets when I' m not stressed and about to throw the computer out of the window.

quote:

Styles in the <head></head> of a page should be reserved for particular style instructions that refer to that page only, or which alter/override a style already in the style sheet for that page only.


The site I am working now has an external style sheet - set up last night (doing a happy dance as it actually worked). It' s for several primary teachers, and each teacher will have their own version of the site - the include is what makes it ' theirs' . They all want different colours / fonts etc on their personal include which is why I was looking at just setting styles in the head tags - obviously wrong.

Should I go with inline styles? Am trying to figure out what would be best in the long run for maintenance - the teachers will change periodically as their classes change so new links and colours will be needed on the personal includes now and again. I could always tell them to put up with what they get but we have found if we give people choices on colurs and fonts the usage of the intranet is far greater.

Sorry if I' m being obtuse about the includes and I do really appreciate people taking the time to help me out.

Wattle



abbeyvet -> RE: FP Includes & CSS (6/23/2003 19:14:26)

In that situation I think your only option is inline styles.

Anything, including styles, in the <head></head> part of the include page will be ignored.

I am not really clear here on what you are doing - how can you have a page that is the same but has a different include for each teacher? It just kind of seems upside down to me!

Would it not be better to have a seperate page for each teacher and to have the stuff that is the same on each of those pages added using includes?

Thus you could have ' teacher1.htm, teacher2.htm, teacher3.htm - each with an embedded stylesheet in the page which is peculiar to each teacher. Then the rest of the page would consist of includes to slot in the content that appears on all the teacher pages. The style of those includes would be referenced in an external stylesheet.



wattle -> RE: FP Includes & CSS (6/23/2003 19:34:32)

quote:

I am not really clear here on what you are doing - how can you have a page that is the same but has a different include for each teacher? It just kind of seems upside down to me!

Would it not be better to have a separate page for each teacher and to have the stuff that is the same on each of those pages added using includes?


<sigh> I' m not clear on what I' m doing either [:(] The page names are similar to your suggestion ' teacher1' etc. The include is for their personal links, documents, class lists, calendar etc and runs down the right hand side of the page (if they want that lime green with purple font they can have it as no one else has to look at it [&:] ).

All the links on their main page of ' teacher1' go to other pages without the ' personal' includes and all the info / look is the same for everyone - which is why I guess I started with using includes for the teachers personal info rather than includes for the stuff that stays the same. Each teacher has their own version of ' teacher' set as their home page. I' ll take another look at it, after I hide under my desk, sobbing, for a while.

Thanks for helping Katherine [:)]

Wattle



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