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[Poll]
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FrontPage 2003 - Will you?
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| Yes, Ill upgrade when it comes out |
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| Perhaps after SP1... |
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| I think Ill stick with FP2002 |
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| I think Ill stick with FP2000 |
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| I think Ill stick with FP98 |
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| I think Ill stick with FP97 |
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| FrontPage? Whats that? |
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Total Votes : 154
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(last vote on : 6/29/2007 18:30:56)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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evansforsyth
Posts: 277
Joined: 12/11/2001
From: Grande Prairie, Alberta, Canada
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 7/2/2003 17:53:22
Well. I have an entirely different take on upgrading to FP 2003.
I' d do it for a better DIW and other database features.
I' ll flat out not do it if OutFront Forum doesn’t support it! You guys have taught me more, encouraged me to persevere, and given me an all-round resource for FrontPage projects.
To me, the cost to upgrade is minor; if the tool makes me more efficient. If the tool is not supported by OutFront—I won’t be more efficient.
Played with Dream Weaver a bit—and can see how it is great for the artistically inclined. But it did not seem more productive than FrontPage since FP does such a bang-up job of site management.
Once again—hats off to Spooky and the gang.
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twotoo2
Posts: 1
Joined: 7/2/2003
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 7/2/2003 22:37:30
Don' t think I will ......... Dreamweaver is my choice and preference now.....I learned with FP but got the chance to use Dreamweaver ...... and now am sold on Dreamweaver MX ...... sorry MS...... you got some catching up to do!!
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mstumpo
Posts: 3
Joined: 6/25/2003
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 7/3/2003 14:57:02
I have been reviewing the beta 2003 of FP and am happy overall with the changes MS has made with it. One of my issues with Microsoft is doing away with the extensions and getting people to use the sharepoint stuff.
In Microsoft' s finite wisdom, I guess they think everyone will be upgrading to 2003 server to take advantage of all this.
Alot of my work is intranet development and one of the *nice* things about FP is I can build a site fast and have the users make minor changes (using Macromedia contribute they can' t change any custom ASP coding).
On the other hand, Dreamweaver is a nice platform. I have been playing with the trial version to see if it' s viable for development vs. FP and have been pleasantly suprised by the ease of database integration. There are a lot of little things in the DB area of DW that FP can' t touch.
I will be purchasing DW as an alternate development platform and in the near future, will be using that more.
If Microsoft does not open it' s eyes, they are going to miss the web dev boat.
Thanks, Spooky for all the help!
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Gil
Posts: 7533
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 7/3/2003 15:02:52
Finally got around to loading the 2003 beta and used it for the past week. I see no reason to upgrade!
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Gil Harvey, 1947-2004
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Gil
Posts: 7533
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 7/3/2003 15:16:31
quote:
Or are you an ASP buff??
LOL ASP? isn' t that a snake?
I didn' t try a PHP site w/ it - I use DW for PHP stuff. I' ll try some PHP pages with it.
One thing I LOVE about DW is being able to switch back & forth w/ Homesite - wish FP would do that....
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Gil Harvey, 1947-2004
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rumblepup
Posts: 116
Joined: 1/29/2003
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 7/3/2003 23:35:50
I think I' m gonna, but I' m not sure.
My mix is DWMX, FP2002, FlashMX, Photoshop and Fireworks.
Haven' t found anything out there that can replace this setup.
FrontPage is not that incredibly terrible at screwing up script. It does, but there are a few plugins out there that really help.
I only use 2000+ webhosting. So my webs usually run A440.
It seems to me that FP2003 is a step in the right direction though.
Split screen, very cool.
No messing up PHP. Very cool.
Flash. Very Cool.
JS. Very Cool.
Sharepoint. Not cool.
I use Microsoft Products, like everyone else, by default. But I still hate it that Uncle Bill forces us to use his shampoo. Makes me feel funny.
Robert
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Outdoor Furniture Cushions
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evansforsyth
Posts: 277
Joined: 12/11/2001
From: Grande Prairie, Alberta, Canada
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 7/6/2003 2:55:47
quote:
FrontPage is not that incredibly terrible at screwing up script. It does, but there are a few plugins out there that really help.
Whoa! What plugins do that! This sounds great--please enlighten me!
Thanks
Evans
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Justjay
Posts: 697
From: Montreal, QC Canada
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 7/6/2003 11:14:51
True its not that bad - but it does it nonetheless...and with FP11 you don' t need all the plugins....
I have the same set up....and again all I can say is...each tool for the right job...
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JustJay
thejehm.net Web Solutions
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awasson
Posts: 80
From: Vancouver BC Canada
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 7/7/2003 15:24:03
Hey Muddysideup,
Unfortunately shared borders aren' t my forte but I did a couple of searches of FrontPage sites I frequent and only found one site with a great deal of info about Shared Borders:
here
I would suggest searching on this site with something more specific than shared borders. I didn' t turn up much info.
You might try searching with Google or Yahoo as well, or place a new thread in the intermediate/experts section:
Here
Sorry I can' t offer any more help,
Andrew
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David Dornblaser
Posts: 38
Joined: 10/31/2002
From: Chicago-area
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 7/9/2003 15:56:43
I just installed the Beta 2 version of FP 2003. I have to say that with about an hour playing with it I like the feel and look a lot. Based on comments about the improved functionality I will be upgrading FP 2003 within days of it becoming available.
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slbergh
Posts: 322
Joined: 11/8/2002
From: Iowa
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 7/10/2003 14:27:24
Personally, I' m eagerly awaiting getting my hands on a copy of FP2003. I' ve been using FP since the days of 98 (yikes!) and with each upgrade, I' ve found features I can' t live without. I' m sure 2003 will be no different.
Right now, I use 2000 at work and 2002 at home. I' m often frustrated by features that 2000 lacks that I know I could use if I were at home.
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Digital data lasts forever...or 5 years, whichever comes first!
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JSettoes
Posts: 7
Joined: 1/26/2003
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 7/15/2003 4:18:03
Awasson,
That first link you gave is a dead end can you check it out please as would like to gain some info myself on subject. Thanks
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awasson
Posts: 80
From: Vancouver BC Canada
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 7/15/2003 11:31:57
quote:
That first link you gave is a dead end can you check it out please as would like to gain some info myself on subject. Thanks
Hi JSettoes,
Sorry about that. It looks like that forum uses a cookie to store a bunch of the information gathered by the search engine. Try HERE and search shared border. There are quite a few returns for that search.
I have also noticed recently, probably because it is fresh in mind that a number of folks have been discussing removing shared borders and replacing them with includes because it gives them more flexibility.
Sorry to get off topic... I will definitely upgrade when the new FrontPage is available!
Cheers,
Andrew
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WakonTonka
Posts: 63
Joined: 6/18/2003
From: Knoxville, TN USA
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 8/2/2003 11:39:33
running the beta now and have my 2003 server setup already too. not too shabby so far, but I still have a bit of a learning curve to get all the nuances integrated.
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“The whole of science is nothing more than a refinement of everyday thinking.”
- Albert Einstein
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carhoo
Posts: 8
Joined: 6/29/2003
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 8/6/2003 16:49:04
quote:
There are things that I like about Dreamweaver (MX) and FP2003 equally and they each have thier strong points which makes me like them...
Why should we have to buy two products when one will should do? I have been pounding my head on fp trying to do advanced database work and it just dont cut it. Web bots shmebots its all junk. Finally a month ago I thought, why should I pay to test someones product for them?? How stupid!! SO I went and bought a Macromedia product and have to say I should of done this almost 2 years ago. Wheres the real world here? FP isnt in the same ballpark as the Macromedia products.
I asked someone here for help a while back and they told me I had to code by hand what else I needed to do. Bahumbug... Dreamweaver lets me do Exactly what I need to do for retrieving database information. I dont see FP being as good of a product as dreamweaver ever. I have seen many applications developed in both and for sure the dreamweaver sites are always more complex and look tons better. Sure its the developer creating the looks, but with the dreamweaver program you can acheive much more than with FP quicker and cleaner..
I made my choice and now have uninstalled fp because it doesn' t hold a candle to MX and have found NO real reason to use it. FP Developers should take notice and create a real editor instead of a half program that can only be used for very little developing.
Good luck to microsoft getting my money this round.
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davids
Posts: 211
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Belgium (American)
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 8/6/2003 19:06:53
Wow, Carhoo, that' s pretty stern stuff. I would like to hear from other people if Dreamweaver is really such a great program that we should leave FP behind. Until now, I' ve just accepted FP 2000' s limitations and handcoded the DB stuff in ASP.
Any comments?
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Davids
International Relocation Technology
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Gil
Posts: 7533
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 8/6/2003 19:12:55
quote:
Any comments?
I don' t think there is any comparision - My analogy would be: Frontpage is a High End Ford- It has a lot more substance then it did in the beginning, is dressed up to ' look' good - But it' s still a Ford. Dreamweaver is a BMW - It looks nice, has most of the bells and whistles, and it really does preform.
Frontpage has it' s place and DW has it' s. For high-end development DW wins hands down. (Ever tried to build a php site in FP?)
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Gil Harvey, 1947-2004
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David Dornblaser
Posts: 38
Joined: 10/31/2002
From: Chicago-area
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 8/6/2003 19:22:48
OK, I have been using the beta 2003 off and on. Last week it totally screwed up my navigational system. It was clearly a beta problem and I decided to stop using it until the full version comes out.
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Gil
Posts: 7533
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 8/6/2003 20:40:23
quote:
but only if you want to get locked into a Microsoft world ......
And that is the reason FP2002 will be my last version!
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Gil Harvey, 1947-2004
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rumblepup
Posts: 116
Joined: 1/29/2003
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 8/6/2003 21:39:30
I' m of the opinion that it' s the hands of the designer. Frontpage has never screwed up my webs because, well, I just don' t let it. But then again, that comes from experience. I know what FP will screw up, and I know what it won' t.
For instance, you create a layout in FP. Go back into the HTML, check for cookybells, and then save. Open up that page in Dreamweaver, it will automatically tell you where the cookybells are, fix it up, and your gold.
Now, take perfectly good HTML, clean as crystal, open it up in FPXP, and whammo!....nothing. No problemo.
But remember, I' m jaded. I use MS2000 or 2003 exclusively (please, please, please check your responses and do some homework, hands down, the most secure hosting - as long as your with a hosting company that remembers to apply patches) Sooooo, FP works like a charm. ASP and ASP.NET, being the most robust application languages, works like a charm is FPXP. The one thing I wish that FP would do is site line numbers.
I use them both, on the fly layout I use FP. Extensive scripting DWMX. And for designers like me, who are working visually a lot of the time, I can tell you from experience that FPXP has a very good image resampling engine. (Must be the old PhotoDeluxe engine, does anybody know for sure/)
A lot of the people using FP are using the very basic layout functions, are don' t dare look at the code, because they don' t know what they are seeing. That' s why you get funky looking websites that look like a 13 year old with Publisher made them, and then they blame it on the program.
Back to my premise. It' s the designer bucko, the designer.
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Outdoor Furniture Cushions
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carhoo
Posts: 8
Joined: 6/29/2003
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 8/7/2003 0:04:51
quote:
I wouldn' t promote FP for anything else other than quick and dirty database retrieval.
Then why would I want to spend hundreds of dollars on a program that don' t perform. Not to mention all the bells and whistles require a office operating system too.. For a lot less I can get a robust editor like Dreamweaver and go to town and not look back
As far as FP being the great asp.net editor you better get out more. WEBMATRIX cleans fp out of the water. Again in the database area.. AND XML Area AND Access database development AND SQL query strings/structure/execution.. AND it' s FREE
As far as FP being equal to MX and it just being the designer .. LOL..LOL Theres no way possible to build the high end applications in fp in the time frame you could with dreamweaver. Which means without serious time and work your application couldn' t compare with a fully developed dreamweaver application givin the same time frame.. The great looks wouldn' t be there either because it wouldn' t have half the features the dreamweaver application has capabilities of developing for example querying database information and returning specific types of results(Unless you code it by hand). Leaving your fp application in the dust again bucko!
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JSettoes
Posts: 7
Joined: 1/26/2003
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 8/7/2003 0:07:29
Hey come on guys, I think you are missing one important factor here.
How much is FP ???? affordable for a lot of people
How much is Dreamweaver?? unaffordable for a lot of people and at the price should offer more than FP.
To me it sounds like those knocking FP did not do their homework properly in the first place, or maybe would have got dreamweaver from the outset.
The right tools for the right job .... and they both have their place in the web designing world - for me?? I cant afford Dreamweaver even if I wanted it, which I dont, and there must be thousands like me. Dreamweaver has excluded a large portion of the market with the cost .... so I say " thank goodness" FP is an affordable price.
quote:
The one thing I wish that FP would do is site line numbers
I think FP2003 does.
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carhoo
Posts: 8
Joined: 6/29/2003
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 8/7/2003 0:20:06
quote:
How much is Dreamweaver?? unaffordable for a lot of people and at the price should offer more than FP.
Well lets count in that you have to get office to benefit from some of the features of fp2003. Lets count that you have to use sharepoint.
I guess everyones idea of having a full feature rich editing program for a affordable cost is differen' t.
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rumblepup
Posts: 116
Joined: 1/29/2003
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 8/7/2003 0:34:20
carhoo
whoa there buddy. you didn' t seem to notice that I agreed with you. I can tell you hate FP, no problemo. And I love DWMX, bunch of fun. But I' ve been doing this for awhile, so I know what to expect from both.
Got a look at your site, and I must admit, you got the juice to strut your stuff, so my comment about the designer is aimed at you too. Your tool was Dreamweaver. All I' m saying is that some people know how to use FP.
If I only told you how many high-end, top scale, top of the shelf websites where created with the help of FP, you' d be amazed. Don' t tell me otherwise, cause your talking to a guy who worked with Valentine, Razorfish and WAX. . I' m not saying that they where completely done in FP, that would be ridiculous, but the basics,...yeah bro.
Are they maintained in FP. NO
Do they further develop in FP. NO
As far as webmatrix is concerned. It is a very cool application, I agree, but we use Visual Studio .NET 2003 Enterprise Architect.
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carhoo
Posts: 8
Joined: 6/29/2003
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 8/7/2003 1:35:23
Yes I' m a little ticked over the fact MS could of built a higher end application for advanced developers.
I have been beta testing a new portal application designed in MX(I didnt create the portal) Testing has completed and the portal release is due out Friday or Saturday. I would like to share the free version release with you all if thats ok? This in my opinion is the best free portal created yet for asp and even utilizes aspx. So .net will have to be installed or the image sizing wont work. There' s a pro version that utilizes sql and has many more features than the free version. Coding is super easy to understand and work with, Templete choices for users are of the highst quality and also utilizes the very latest in MM technology. beyond easy to install too.. I cant say no more..
I agree there' s a very small place for FP, I just grew out of it and needed more. ALOT more..
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