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[Poll]
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FrontPage 2003 - Will you?
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| Yes, Ill upgrade when it comes out |
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| Perhaps after SP1... |
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| I think Ill stick with FP2002 |
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| I think Ill stick with FP2000 |
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| I think Ill stick with FP98 |
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| I think Ill stick with FP97 |
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| FrontPage? Whats that? |
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Total Votes : 154
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(last vote on : 6/29/2007 18:30:56)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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awasson
Posts: 80
From: Vancouver BC Canada
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 10/19/2003 19:02:03
quote:
BIG learning curve though. FP to Dreamweaver and PSP to Fireworks.
You'll like Dreamweaver once you get the hang of it. Fireworks... maybe, maybe-not. IMO, it doesn't stand a candles chance in a wind storm against Photoshop.
I'm still keen to upgrade FP to 2003, but I think I'll still use 2000 for the older ones just to be on the safe side.
Andrew
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rumblepup
Posts: 116
Joined: 1/29/2003
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 10/31/2003 15:10:59
quote:
The new sync feature in publish is handy... but I'm not sure yet if it's really that much better than just a publish.
There are alot of features that are better than "publish" What impresses me is that FP finally has multiple upload methods, and the local to remote sync is cool too.
I've been using this puppy for about a month now. I am really impressed.
I don't know how I lived without split screen.
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rumblepup
Posts: 116
Joined: 1/29/2003
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 10/31/2003 16:26:24
picky picky.
But I think that there is a Pref's setting that will allow both screens to be scrolled at the same time.
I use the split screen in a 70/30 mode. 70 percent design and 30 percent code.
And the fact that it supports layers, php, css layout, asp.net (let me repeat (ASP.NET!!!!!) enhanced tools for XML. Damn!
Uncle Bill, please keep listening to us kids. You can beat the pants off Dreamweaver if you just kick FP into high-gear.
But you want to know my favorite feature? hmmmmmmmmmm.
Drag and drop flash!!!!!
YAY
< Message edited by rumblepup -- 10/31/2003 4:27:53 PM >
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awasson
Posts: 80
From: Vancouver BC Canada
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 10/31/2003 19:42:44
quote:
let me repeat (ASP.NET!!!!!) enhanced tools for XML. Damn!
One of the biggest reasons to upgrade for me. Dreamweaver has pretty average support for .NET so I'm interested in getting the upgrade for that reason alone.
Split screen is another really handy feature, that I live in, in Dreamweaver.
So Bobby, how is it that we get that great friends of a guy at MS discount?
Andrew
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Matrix28
Posts: 15
Joined: 10/29/2003
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 11/1/2003 8:50:13
Never really got on with the program. You can't been hand coding in Notepad.
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Kent
Posts: 54
From: North Brookfield, MA US
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 11/6/2003 17:08:47
I installed the upgrade over the weekend, and am very pleased so far... In my view, it is fine-tuning of usability issues as much as anything. Some first impressions from a "hobbyist" working on a large (1500+)page site:
1. Split pane is great for those who don't primarily hand-code. Its great to see the cursor in both panes to locate a minor tweak you want to make. Much better than tabbing to a full "code" view and scrolling to find where the "insertion point" is.... The reverse is also true.
2. Navigation pane on the left is great for moving around large sites -- I always had to go back to the nav view and click on the next page I wanted to edit. This saves a lot of clicks after a while...
3. The support for CSS and DWTs instead of themes and shared borders is great. I'm already through much of the site, converting what was "shared borders" to a DWT and changing a theme to CSS. I would never have tackled such a chore on this many pages without it....
4. The enhanced Search & Replace is great, especially the option to search on only pages that you have open... this allows you to do "global changes" in a "restricted space" by doing a "replace all" that is contained to only the pages you have open. So you can selectively apply it.
5. Code snippets feature is neat also. By combining snippets of code with the enhanced search and replace, it's very easy to make consistent changes to a broad, yet still constrained part of a site. I've been working through my site, folder by folder, changing to CSS and "testing" each folder before I move on.
6. The Optimize HTML helps reduce bloat for those of us that weren't using other HTML compression tools.
7. The line numbers, already discussed, is long overdue... especially when using FP to work on ASP. Code snippets here are great also. IMO, this is the best Microsoft product available for designing the GUI for ASP.
IMO, this upgrade is great for the serious hobbyist. It moves FP up a notch closer to a "professional tool" without making it overwhelming for a "hobbyist"... The consistency with the Office GUI makes it easy learn and anticpate where to find things, in comparison to Dreamweaver.
I stand by my earlier comparison of the two tools -- if you want to produce a visually impressive site, use Dreamweaver. If you want to put a lot of content on the web with a presentable, professional look, go with FrontPage...
It is a great tool for intranet development, where it seems that Mirosoft is trying to target... not "webmasters" or "web designers"....
I don't regret a cent of the upgrade price for my needs.
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davids
Posts: 211
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Belgium (American)
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 11/6/2003 17:41:16
Yes, thanks Kent for these comments. I mainly live in the HTML view, using ASP to get stuff from/into a database, so this sounds great.
Code snippets and a better Search & Replace are by themselves a big timesaver.
This has just moved way up my priority list!
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International Relocation Technology
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BobbyDouglas
Posts: 5577
Joined: 5/15/2003
From: Arizona
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 11/20/2003 15:53:25
"better Search & Replace"
- What makes it better? It does not seem like there is much to a search and replace script. You search(already had it in 2002) and then replace that... Whats new about this?
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davids
Posts: 211
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Belgium (American)
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 11/20/2003 16:31:05
I'm still on FP2000. I can't Search & Replace across multiple pages or across a site. I sometimes resuse several pages of an old project to create a capability for a current project, like adding directory search and administration. If I can replace table and field names across several pages, that will save a lot of time!
Or, suppose I want to upgrade on older site to CSS. I can change the <p> tags across the site to include a class, and then trash the <font> tags, etc. This is something I just wouldn't attempt now. The more I think about it the more excited I get.
Unfortunately, I've had to replace some hardware and upgrade WebPosition this month, so I'll have to put it on my Christmas list!
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International Relocation Technology
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remclave
Posts: 25
Joined: 11/11/2003
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 11/22/2003 10:28:08
Well, I voted that I would upgrade....and I did. I so love FP2003! Had some initial growing pains with one of my sites but a download overwrite (publish to local) fixed that!
I will say this much....don't load new/upgraded software one day then upgrade hardware the next! I JUST got back online yesterday! One week without my fix of FPWM was one week too long!
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TonyT
Posts: 188
Joined: 9/30/2003
From: Vancouver, WA
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 12/26/2003 2:36:41
Code Snipits own me hard! It saves a lot of time on long, redundant code. For example, all the regular tags that go into a head tag....got it all as a snipit. Insert it, fill in the few tag contents and presto! Done!
< Message edited by TonyT -- 12/25/2003 23:37:13 >
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judahis
Posts: 1
Joined: 1/3/2004
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 1/3/2004 18:54:51
I have been waffling between FP and DWMX for a few months now, but have finally caved in to FP: I just do not have the time to learn
the scripting languages I probably will someday learn, so I will kick the FP2003 tires until they go flat, get it?
Even after numerous searches on the web, I am still puzzled by these issues with FP2003 (and having seen numerous contradictory info):
1. The issue of FP2003 extensions: Some say they are gone, others that they are still there; even hosting companies insisting that they are still present (for example, one of my present hosts, Omnis). I realize that SharePoint gives more features, but SharePoint is not an absolute necessity, from what I can gather, contrary to what seem to post. Any EXPERTS to clarify this?
2. I will someday learn Php and try to use with FP2003, even though contradictory posts on how FP2003 messes it up and others say it does not. CLARIFICATION PLEASE?
3. CSS: About a year ago, I tried it and seemed to do OK with IE but a mess in Netscape. I read now posts that Netscape still does not render CSS okay and others say it does. CLARIFICATION?
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davids
Posts: 211
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Belgium (American)
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 1/3/2004 19:56:32
I can only address the CSS question, as my copy of FP 2003 has been ordered, but not yet arrived.
My recent attempt to go total CSS was a big flop. I tried it with a proposal for a project. In the real world, you just cannot anticipate the number of browser and OS combimations. Some of my prospects are using Macs, some are using very old computers. Some even have Java turned off.
Despite all the talk, I find that I still need to use basic html, to prevent a demo from going very bad. A page that validates in xhtml can go all wrong in older browsers.
My lesson: code for the worst, unless you really know the system on which you will be judged.
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International Relocation Technology
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rumblepup
Posts: 116
Joined: 1/29/2003
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 1/3/2004 23:51:01
FP 2003 kinda-sorta supports PHP, but in all honesty, PHP might be going the way of the way of the dynosaur. ASP.NET is quickly becoming THE thing to reckon with. And because MONO is becoming more and more available, will be able to be run on any UNIX and Linux based system. Boy, Uncle Bill has really been paying attention, huh?
FP does not bring any NEW extensions to the table. It just uses FP2000 and 2002 extensions, but does not require them. So if you want to use DRW or any of the built in FPbots, then you need a host with at least the 2000 extensions.
But FP2003 don't need them. In fact, It doesn't need Sharepoint either. It can utilize any connection and upload standard, including FP publish and FTP file upload.
The CSS support in FP is pretty straitforward, spaghetti style scipting. You can link to externall CSS, but not a lot of support for formatting via the design gui. YOu have to manually code for page layout.
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davids
Posts: 211
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Belgium (American)
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RE: FrontPage 2003 - Will you? - 1/19/2004 10:37:15
The split screen is a giant leap forward for coding. One page has 1300 lines, and all I have to do is scroll down to aninput box in Design view and click it. The Code view shows me the code right away. Before I would have to switch between views, so I didn't bother.
Now I'll be picky. Why can't the focus change depending on the part of the window where the mouse cursor is? When I use the preview pane in Outlook, I can scroll the top or bottom areas, just by moving my cursor into them and using the mouse wheel. FP should work the same way. Instead, I have to click in the part of the split I want to scroll.
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Maybe it's just real easy to get used to the new features and they've just become normal now... 
ky 
