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_gail
Posts: 2876
From: So FL
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FrontPage & Invision board - 8/23/2003 12:37:39
Have had a nice forum going on for some time without problems. It was tucked away in the cgi-bin and I never had to worry about it when I published the website. Then, thankfully, we got a knowledgeable volunteer who said he would upgrade the forum, only he didn't. He installed, with little warning, whole new forum and stuck it in the main directory. It's been nothing but publishing problems ever since.
I won't go into all the details but the main problem is that when I publish, FrontPage now recognizes the forum in the html directory. When I published, FrontPage asked me if I wanted to delete forum files and I clicked "no to all." However, the forum is not working since then.
Any suggestions? Not how to fix the current problem but get FrontPage to stop recognizing and messing with the forum itself. I know nothing about forum installations. This one is Invision Board and apparently can not be set up in the cgi-bin.
gail
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Gil
Posts: 7533
From: North Carolina, USA
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RE: FrontPage & Invision board - 8/23/2003 13:34:06
gail,
IVB should be installed in a directory one level below root. When publishing w/ FP make sure FP does not touch that directory at all. IVB is php and FP will make a mess out of it.
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Gil Harvey, 1947-2004
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abbeyvet
Posts: 5095
From: Kilkenny Ireland
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage & Invision board - 8/23/2003 18:03:45
I have not used FP publish in ages, but can't you mark a folder as not for publication?
Why not make a local folder called /forum, with nothing in it, and mark it not for publication?
I am not sure it will work but it might mean FP just leaves that directory on the server alone.
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Katherine
:: InKK Design :: InKK Domains
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_gail
Posts: 2876
From: So FL
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage & Invision board - 8/23/2003 18:48:24
quote:
Why not make a local folder called /forum, with nothing in it, and mark it not for publication?
I had tried that. Unfortunately, only individual files and images can be marked not for publication (Don't publish); folders can not be so designated, whether empty or full.
gail
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_gail
Posts: 2876
From: So FL
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage & Invision board - 8/24/2003 8:03:31
quote:
I don't now if it would work, but can you mark every file in the /forum directory 'not for publication'?
Yes, but the files keep changing, so it would be a pain to publish each time. In fact, we believe our mistake was thinking we should publish the /forum directory back to my hard drive. Problems were caused when we later decided to delete it.
As far as we've determined at this point, it's better to just ignore the /forum directory, then FrontPage treats it as if it doesn't exisit. Will watch closely if I ever need to republish the live web to my drive.
gail
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tjlytle
Posts: 18
From: San Jose, Costa Rica
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage & Invision board - 8/24/2003 11:48:03
Hiya Gail,
I webmaster several sites with IPB and I have no problem with using FP on those sites, but this has inherent problems.
They CAN co-exist... now saying that...
Once I have published a website with FP and have used FTP to install specialty scripts, I do not re-publish the whole thing. I publish only corrected or modified pages. The extensions never seem to get it right after an extensive FTP process.
Unfortunately, I fear you have bigger problems.
The IPB Forum uses MySQL extensively. You cannot simple "move it". There are Path names, configure files, and other goodies that need tending to.
Your friend did NOT install this Forum using FP. It had to have been installed using FTP. No other way.
This (in my experience) has resulted in the following:
The FP extensions may have been corrupted.
Whatever was uploaded via FTP is usually not recognized by the FP extensions. Odd things happen... like you can SEE a folder in your FP directory, but either can't access it, get a user error, or permissions error when you attempt to open it in FP.
Though a bit of work... here is my suggestion.
1. Set up a sub domain. Make it look like this: forums.yourcustomer.com
FP extensions not needed on the sub-domain. So do not even install them.
If your web host does not allow you to set up sub domains instantly and EASILY, i e. less than 30 seconds online, contact me via email and I'll give you a provider who makes a webmaster's life easy. Using subdomains is a great way to segregate content, scripts or other thingys that don't play well with FP or cause these problems.
2. Reinstall the IPB Forum to that new sub-domain using FTP.
3. BE CAREFUL - YOu MAY need to create a new database... but probably NOT if all is on the same server! You should be able to access the IPB MySQL database easily. If not, you can create a new DB then import the IPB data from the old MySQL database.
If you are not comfortable working around MySQL, go to the IPB Forum and get help with this.
4, Once you have the IPB Forum alive and well on the sub-web... just change your linkage from the main site and provide a return path. You're done... painless! Well.... almost.
Since your friend may have compromised the extensions. When you are all done with this transfer, have the extensions reinstalled (on the main domain) remembering that THAT may have an affect on navigation, themes, Form cantrol, and the like.
IPB is perhaps one of the best boards out there on a Unix/Linux platform... so you will likely grow to love it. However, the documentation doeth sucketh greatly.
Regards,
Tim
San Jose, Costa Rica
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tjlytle
Posts: 18
From: San Jose, Costa Rica
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage & Invision board - 8/24/2003 12:07:38
Editorial Comment! Free!!
Just in passing!
As I re-read the various posts in this thread... I SEEM to be noticing a trend! Or possibly a disclaimer?
It seems as if people are making a point of saying how they do NOT use FP!
+++ Haven't used it in ages! +++
+++ Haven't opened it in a month! +++
Now maybe this is true... or maybe it is like the statement, "I don't watch TV".
Perhaps using FP is now a dirty little secret... like when Uncle George got drunk and flashed the kids at the birthday party for Aunt Phyllis?
Or... is there now a snob appeal to telling everyone... "I am beyond FrontPage. My dear.... I haven't heard the word 'extensions' in AAAAges"!
Now I am just a newbie to these Forums.... but I sort of got the idea that OutFront and it's Forums were somewhat tilted in the direction of the FP user... or Dreamweaver too I suppose.
These comments don't affect me... but if I were a (web design) newbie... I think the veiled comments about FP usage might just make me wonder why I am on this Forum for support.
Dear Moderator... I KNOW this comment should be elsewhere... so go ahead and move it :)
Tim
San Jose
Costa Rica
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_gail
Posts: 2876
From: So FL
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage & Invision board - 8/24/2003 18:05:44
quote:
1. Set up a sub domain. Make it look like this: forums.yourcustomer.com
tjlytle,
I shared your info with the person I'm working with, who sold and installed BB's for a living for many years. One of his (NOT MY) reactions was: "be careful when seeking advise from others. Many individuals are actually stumbling through the dark no better than those they're trying to help."
Well I admit I'm stumbling in the dark on this one but you don't sound like you are. So to update, now that we have everything back in order I've been publishing away with FrontPage without a hitch or problems. All forum components are where they originally were. There is still a /forum directory in the html folder and FrontPage seems to simply ignore it.
Does that sound right to you? What I'm asking at this point is if you think we really need a subdomain; that perhaps we've just been lucky today? Would a subWEB for the /forum directory work as well?
Thank you very much for your time and help on this.
gail
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Gil
Posts: 7533
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage & Invision board - 8/24/2003 18:17:14
quote:
What I'm asking at this point is if you think we really need a subdomain;
Nope - All a "sub domain" amounts to is a DNS pointer to a directory below root
IE:
The subdomain http://sub.domain.com
is
actually
http://domain.com/sub
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Gil Harvey, 1947-2004
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tjlytle
Posts: 18
From: San Jose, Costa Rica
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage & Invision board - 8/24/2003 20:24:56
Hi Gail...
There is absolutely no reason that the Forum will not work as you have it.
I am sorry if I was not clear.
As a matter of fact, the first Invision Forum I installed was done exactly the way you did it. It has been running fine for a long time now, though I had a few problems just as you did.
The problem occurs because of exactly what you mentioned above. FrontPage ignores that folder.
This is not a problem so long as you know that you cannot simply Publish the website to a hard drive to back it up.
Also, if you like to do your web work on your system and upload the changes, weird things can happen. On the website I mentioned above, I do either the work 'Live" or on my PC publishing only the changed pages. This seems to keep the Extensions happy!
If it is now working... don't fix it! Just make sure you backup the site using FTP. Even saying that, you MAY experience a problem should you need to restore it. If you do, the Invision reinstall is pretty simple.
My comments were more directed at the better way to to do it should you need to in the future or should you decide to switch hosting providers, or if you were unable to get it working now.
If you install your webpages (FP stuff) and use a subdomain for the Forum, life is just more simple for you.
Glad you got your problem solved.
Tim
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tjlytle
Posts: 18
From: San Jose, Costa Rica
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage & Invision board - 8/24/2003 20:43:16
Howdy Gorilla..
Thanks for your comments.
Actually, I am pretty familiar with this Forum having been on it for a few years... just not under this name. I am well aware of the hundreds (thousands?) of people who cheerfully help others. As a matter of fact, I am going to post a question later tonight on a subject with which I need help... Hopefully, some kind soul will have the answer. Maybe you!
Apparently I was not clear. This has nothing to do what software, tools or techniques people use. I was in NO way attacking this Forum nor disparaging its members!
My comments... hopefully light in nature... tried to point out how a "real" newbie might feel when they read comments such as those I mentioned in my post.
My only thought in writing that little note was to remind folks that many "real" newbies come to OutFront and the Forum because they ARE new and are using FrontPage.
If the tone is set by the old timers is that FrontPage is somehow... well... below them, useless or something REAL webmasters don't use... I fear it might make those newbies feel like they are stupid, looked down upon, or were stupid to buy FP in the first place.
In fact, it might just cause them to be reluctant to ask questions which is clearly one of the goals of the Forum regardless of software used.
I was a newbie in computers in the 70's when I first started using (and selling) Imsai, Altair, Ohio Scientific, Southwest Technical Products.
Several years later, Commodore and Apple were born and there actually WAS someone who could answer a question. The IBM popped in a ruined everything! 
After 30 years in this business, I am protective of the newbies because I know they represent the future of computing and the web.
Just my thoughts!
Tim
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abbeyvet
Posts: 5095
From: Kilkenny Ireland
Status: offline
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RE: FrontPage & Invision board - 8/25/2003 8:10:35
Just want to point out that what I said was not that I hadn't used FP in ages, what I said was I hadn't used FP publish in ages.
I use FP every single day, the 30 - 40 sites that I look after that are mainly managed using FP, but I don't publish them, I FTP. I am not using extensions at all on the vast majority of them.
So while I am not any longer familiar with some of the things that require extensions (as I have not used them since the last version of FP), but I am very happy with FP as my primary tool (among several).
Mentioning that fact had nothing at all to do snobbery, I have no interest in any kind of software snobbery or snobbery of any kind for that matter. There are many ways of using FP, I use a lot of PHP so publishing is not really suitable for what I do, so I FTP. In no way do I look down on anyone who does things differently, but I am not going to pretend I am familiar with the detailed ins and outs of something I am not using regularly.
I was just making the point that my suggestion was a kind of a guess, not something I had actually tried and could conclusively say worked.
quote:
If the tone is set by the old timers is that FrontPage is somehow... well... below them, useless or something REAL webmasters don't use... I fear it might make those newbies feel like they are stupid, looked down upon, or were stupid to buy FP in the first place.
I really do not think that that is a fair reflection of anything that is going on here at OutFront. Even the most experienced OF members regularly take considerable time and effort to help those new to FP - a quick perusal of the beginners forum will confirm that. Ignoring the fact that not everyone is a newbie, that there are many ways to use FP and that FP is useful, very useful, even to those who do not wish for whatever reason to use any of its proprietary stuff is not of benefit to anyone. Nor would phrasing every answer as though it were addressed to a new user be useful.
This question was asked not in the beginners forum, but in intermediate/advanced forum, by a member with over 2000 posts who is quite well known to many of us and who is known personally to me. That will affect the approach to an answer. I very much doubt that Gail was upset by any reply that was genuinely trying to help her to address her problem, as we all are.
And I think tlytle has answered it, which is great.
Finally, I too recall being a newbie, and of course there are loads of things I am still a newbie at and other forums where my posts are all in the beginners section. I am not always treated as well at those others as beginners are here. I recall when I came in here first being not intimidated by all the stuff in the more advanced forums - which at that time was double dutch to me - but more impressed by how much more I could do with FP if I stuck with it and kept learning.
< Message edited by abbeyvet -- 8/25/2003 8:12:13 AM >
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