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c1sissy
Posts: 5079
Joined: 7/20/2002
From: NJ
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RE: The big Bucks???? - 8/31/2003 12:35:30
Hi Barry:
Now believe me I am far from the pros. I'm listed in the wanna be area right now. However, I do have some thoughts here.
When you do design, what are some of the most important aspects of dealing with and holding onto your clients?
quote:
If i do more marketing I get more design business = which means more time at the PC. There is only 24 hours in a day
I'm sure that you know how to prioritize your time and resources. Deciding which clients get priority according to the deadlines and the sizes of the sites that they would like. Along with informing them that there are sometimes problems that arise that are beyond your control.
quote:
If i do marketing for hosting = no relationship and the money sucks
Apparently you seem to like the relationships that you form with your clients. I would think that if I were looking for someone to design a site for me, I would want someone who actually cares a bit to learn something about me, and how I would like to set my site up. I myself am a people person. I enjoy contact with people.
quote:
If i go after the big fish I would most likely get one or two but they generally want all your time, energy, wife, kids, the dogs bowl......................
In a way you have actually answered this question yourself.
Your family and time with them is important to you.
You sound like you like the smaller clients. The ones that you can contact with. The big guys, they aren't going to want to hear about the small little problems that can come up. All they are going to care about is the deadline, and you do what it takes to get there, no matter the cost to your family, or the stress levels that would most likely be involved in this. The smaller client is most likely going to have a family as well, and understand that you have a life, and that the web design is your business, and that they go hand in hand with you.
I dont know if this has helped you or not, but these are just my thoughts. As you well know the list of pros and cons has to come from you.
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Charles W Davis
Posts: 1725
Joined: 3/7/2002
From: Henderson Nevada USA
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RE: The big Bucks???? - 8/31/2003 13:21:56
Barry,
The following are for discussion only and are not recommendations.
Partnership. As you probably know a partnership is fraught with pitfalls. Even with a "professional" partnership agreement, you are at the mercy of the partner.
Employees. Employees can be managed with an investment of your time, reducing your overall effectiveness. They will usually strike out on their own when they feel that they are ready. You must then set up for payroll taxes, etc.
Sub-contract. This might work for some projects that you wish to take on, but are currently in a crunch. Again this will take a portion of your time, and you must look at your schedule in that light. Think about doing the design and sub-contract the implementation.
Keep in mind, I have never had to depend on the revenue for my livelyhood.
Best of luck!
< Message edited by Charles W Davis -- 8/31/2003 1:24:14 PM >
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abbeyvet
Posts: 5095
From: Kilkenny Ireland
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RE: The big Bucks???? - 9/1/2003 7:22:56
quote:
Otherwise it's the same old question: "How can I get more business and make more money without doing a whole lot of additional work in the same amount of time?"
Charge more.
I know that seems a glib comment, but if you are running out of hours the only real way to increase you income is just that. I hit that too, and I simply did that, upped my prices, made myself less available. Guess what? It works! You lose a job or two here and there, but they are the ones that would not really have paid you anyway, so let them go.
The additional benefit is that people who are prepared to spend a bit more at the outset tend to be the same ones who are happy to pay a decent price for ongoing support and work. The ones who are very price conscious at the start don't undergo some sort of transformation later - they will want stuff done cheap forever.
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_gail
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From: So FL
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RE: The big Bucks???? - 9/1/2003 13:51:02
I can't add much more the good and practical information that has already been given so let me get a little philosophical, barry, and share some thoughts based on what I learned owning and operating several small businesses (with my husband and by myself).
Being in your own business, always but particularly in the beginning stages, is just plain a lot of hard work. I have found this to be the rule rather than the exception. It takes at least a year or two, maybe three, to “find yourself” and to begin making a profit. IMHO, if you work that hard you deserve to make a profit not just meet expenses including salary. Otherwise, you can work for someone else and have weekends and nights off.
Running a small business certainly has its challenges but I believe the rewards far surpass them (easier said looking back than when first starting a business). If family means a lot to you, and it obviously does, then make it a priority to find the right balance between work and time with them. If you work from home, you're never out of the office so make a conscious and concerted effort to keep reasonable working hours. Commit to quality time with family.
Many business owners find it helpful to create a written business plan. In it, set a goal/vision as how you want your business to look in a year, five years, ten years. Every now and then review and, if necessary, revise that goal. By doing this you will be able to measure your success. Set reasonable goals, too, about the income you expect. I have a client whose business grew quite large and had to hire several employees. She found out that wasn’t what she really wanted. She examined the impact of the business size and demands on herself and family. She made the conscious decision to scale back, reduce employees, become more selective about the customers she accepted. In fact, she actually branched out and ventured into a new but related business and is making more money than before.
I’d like to say something about small vs. big business clients. In one of our businesses, we eventually had both and it worked well. We built up a loyal, good-paying customer base with few of them being what I’d call “real pains.” We made big money from our big clients and it was great. But we also made a determined and conscious effort to develop and maintain relationships with small ones (note: small customer does not necessarily mean they are cheap or unprofitable). The small clients were our bread and butter, the foundation of our business. There can be a danger relying solely on “biggies.” Even if they like your work well enough, one day along comes a brand new CEO or other corporate officer who has a friend in the business, and it’s bye-bye to you.
gail
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cooper
Posts: 773
From: Woburn MA USA
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RE: The big Bucks???? - 9/1/2003 21:09:55
Barry,
Great post! First, I think you have to decide what you like. I love the design work. I found that I couldn't deal with the Internet "novices" (some of my clients) who thought:
- Simply putting up a site at a domain would result in postive cash flow
- Thought pasting text and images from Word would work in FrontPage... after alll, they are both from Microsoft!
- Thought different colors and text on every page was a good idea... to let visitors know they were in a different spot of the site
My last client was my last design client. I can't take it! The guy wanted everything for nothing and got rather "snippy" when I did not answer the phone 24/7.
I have decided to carve out my little business niche selling templates from FrontPage, Dreamweaver, Flash and SWiSH. I can still make a good part time living ($750 to $1200 a month) and the customer I answer to the most is my family.
I wrestled for a while with the idea of taking this full time... thoughts like "If I could market and get an average of a customer a week" I could make $50,000 to $65,000 a year! I never did it. Call me a chicken, a cop out, whatever you want. The best part is, the template thing is a creative release for me and it is NOT a 24/7 job, unless I want to make it one.
I would stick with what you are doing. If you are getting an average of $1,000 a site, do enough marketing to try to get a client a week. $52,000 is nothing to sneeze at!
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Cooper
BAC Web Design - Tools & Templates - Buck A Ball - Stopspamstop.com
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Nancy
Posts: 3626
Joined: 11/9/1999
From: Nebraska
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RE: The big Bucks???? - 9/2/2003 14:35:37
As they say: Work Smarter, not Harder!
And in your case, that may just mean raising the prices. I think you'll find those new clients a lot more knowledgeable. As a whole, they seem to have done some homework on things as part of their budget plan, which translates into a lot less time spent hand-holding and educating.
As for those who need the hand-holding and decision making, maybe spend a little time gathering a standard "prep" package to send them. If they contact you and want a website, but have no ideas about any of it, send them the package, and tell them to contact you when they know what they want. *S* Let them self-educate on their own time. Okay, you can be a little more tactful than that, but I think you get the idea.
Your package can outline your philosophies - what you will do, and more specifically what you won't do as part of your quote. Send them some links for information if you want, such as information on site promotion etc. maybe a color chart etc. Include a checklist for them to complete, and don't waste more than five minutes on the site unless ALL information on the checklist is completed. Send them an initial quote if you want, based on an empty checklist, and also a general quote - guesstimate if you will, on what it will cost with the checklist filled out. Once they see the cost difference (for example $1200 for an empty checklist, versus $500 for a completed one) they will quickly see that it is to their benefit to do the homework, and it frees you up from their neediness.
Once you can sort out what responsibilites are yours, and which are your clients, you'll be able to stop pulling out your hair. You'll be able to do some of those smaller sites, and still have time with your family. You should be able to whip out a small site in an evening or so, and if you put in 5 hours for $500, those aren't bad wages!
Lastly: stop with the phone calls. Do your contacts via email, on your own schedule!!
Hope some of this helps.
Nancy
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davids
Posts: 211
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Belgium (American)
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RE: The big Bucks???? - 9/3/2003 17:08:21
Wow! A lot of good food for thought here.
I'm not a genius on business matters, but I do come from the business side and am technically impaired. I believe that the key to building a business over time means gaining leverage somehow either doing less work for the same amount of money or getting more money for the same amount of work.
Some of this is just learning curve, or, as already mentioned time savers like templates. Eventually, though, I think it comes down to strong differentiation (niche).
Here's my plan (still being proven). I have focused on a sub-industry full of companies in the 10-50 employee range, where I have some knowledge and contacts. Besides some design work and SEO, the real key is an online application that helps them manage better internally and support customers.
The benefits of this approach are:
- More efficient marketing through industry group, annual conference, word of mouth, and referrals.
- I am able to demonstrate a better understanding of their business than someone locally who just talks tech - keywords, customer needs, etc.
- Each project to build an application builds on the overall application that I can take to the next job
By pushing on the application side and customer service business benefits I can push the project into the $5-10 000 range, if I'm lucky.
Of course there is some pushback from those who are afraid to work with a competitor's supplier, but I make discretion a major point. I also limit myself to the top 2-4 companies in each European country.
Maybe this helps. So far so good for me. I am able to pass-up the small design job if the guy is taking too much time!
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Davids
International Relocation Technology
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davids
Posts: 211
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Belgium (American)
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RE: The big Bucks???? - 9/4/2003 9:05:52
I just meant that I have a potential design job, but the guy is just asking so many questions and taking so much time, that I have to ignore him because I already have too much other work.
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Davids
International Relocation Technology
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Flex
Posts: 28
Joined: 9/11/2003
From: Fraser, MI
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RE: The big Bucks???? - 9/11/2003 4:09:00
Barry:
Go with your heart. Easier said than done, but being your own boss takes a lot of time and effort. It is actually more demanding than working for someone else. If you ever get overwhelmed, contract out or tag-team on maintenance and so forth.
I've been putting off my pursuit for web designing or what graphic artist call "web builders".
Feel free to respond back,
Flex
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Printable Version 
We also work with the small/middle business that no one else wants. 
I have drawn the conclusion that some folk will never be happy after they pay you because they feel that the investment is not worth thier money in the first place. I have started doing a better job being clear on wants included with my fee. 
Even after I get out it is still messy. 
