Would you agree to this? (Full Version)

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paulie -> Would you agree to this? (9/12/2003 11:56:11)

I just developed a site for a client that facilitates the registration process for a series of workshops. A form posts data to an ASP page with 200 lines of code that validates the form data, executes an Insert into an Access DB, grabs the record ID of the newly created record, displays it and everything else they submitted on a nice confirmation screen, and then emails an attachment containing the agenda for the specific workshop they chose based on a value they submitted in the form. It all works beautifully.

The client has a staff member who previously updated the site with FrontPage, and beyond that, has no professional training or experience with HTML, scripting, databases or programming. Their system requirements resulted in my having to code functionality in ASP that far exceeds the capabilities of the FP Data Results Wizard and webbot code. (You can read my trail of blood, sweat and tears in the ASP Forum right here at Outfront. [;)] All hail Spooky, RDouglass & Doug G!)

The staff member wants to continue updating the site using FP and the FP server extensions, and would need to modify some of my ASP code in the process. My fear is that by not understanding the code and by using the FP extensions to publish updates, my ASP code will eventually be broken. So I told them I would agree to that ONLY IF they promise NEVER to call me when it breaks, and instead, politely offered to do the updates myself for an hourly rate that is competitive in our local market. Am I being fair? They certainly don't think so.



Reflect -> RE: Would you agree to this? (9/12/2003 12:07:23)

quote:

Am I being fair? They certainly don't think so.


Why not FTP and store the ASP pages locally. Inform them when they break the pages code that you can restore to the date of YOUR last modification. I would also suggest they pay you to update these ASP pages (as you have stated above) or send their "person" to some ASP courses. I would also have, on their person's computer, the files marked as "do not publish".

Out of curiosity what do they think the situation should be?

Now where's my cake as I want to eat it to seems to be a good thought [;)].

Brian



paulie -> RE: Would you agree to this? (9/12/2003 14:41:43)

Thanks Reflect! Your input was quite helpful. I spoke with my client earier today and it looks like we're going to be able to reach a compromise.

They admitted that it wasn't fair for them to modify my code and then demand that I fix it if it breaks, especially free of charge, which was their original expectation! It's really hard to explain how difficult it is for a web page to take data, save it to a DB, display a confirmation message and send an email, to someone with no knowledge of the technology required.

They're purchasing a copy of the FTP software I recommended and agreed to either pay my hourly rate for updates or negotiate an ongoing support contract based on their projected need for updates. I'm going to show them how to FTP their .htm files without messing with the FP extensions or my ASP code. [:)]
Your feedback was greatly appreciated - it helped me calm down a little and consider some rational alternatives.



Reflect -> RE: Would you agree to this? (9/15/2003 7:22:26)

Gald to have helped [:)].

Take care,

Brian



dmwind -> RE: Would you agree to this? (9/17/2003 20:29:26)

you are being fair, but in a harsh way.

Personally, I would agree to this with a single caveat warning him of the danger and problems inherent in a non-programmer doing this, and without any anger or rancor, as I already have done in the past with clients like this.

What happens is:

1: You are the good guy by saying yes, no problem; however, Mr.Client, please be warned that if the person updating the web site breaks the site and the programing, the POSTED hourly charges for the type of programming needed will be charged. (And those prices are, or course, full boat retail!)

2: Then, after the client pays the bill when the site breaks, you set up a full maintenance contract. That works like a charm, because the maintenance contract is usually lower than the cost of each repair, when totaled, and, you have annual recurring income.

Of course, ego can get in the way, but no matter how dumb a client is, he is the client and pays for the services.


David



pcguy -> RE: Would you agree to this? (9/18/2003 8:20:21)

<2 CENTS>
I realize this is a Frontpage motivated forum, but if you find yourself in the same situation with more clients, you should consider moving to Dreamweaver MX, and let your clients use Contribute II.

There is no safer way to let you clients update the actual website without having to worry about them breaking things.

You can lock down your code, graphics, layout, etc - and only allow them to modify text content. You as the developer set the permissions for them.

</2 CENTS>



dmwind -> RE: Would you agree to this? (9/18/2003 8:36:39)

I guess you misunderstood me. Breaking things isn't the issue as I see it: Continued business and profits are. No matter what program a client uses to work on their web site, the optimal result should be that it is the web designer who is kept on to maintain the site, unless of course you have so much new design business that maintaining a client's web site brings down profits.

I should be so lucky to be in that position....



erinatkins -> RE: Would you agree to this? (9/18/2003 10:46:35)

As long as the customer is willing to pay you to fix it - let them try to work on it.

I have had no problem letting customers mess up the site & I fix it.

There will be a few customers that have no problem working on the site.

Others will mess it up & I am called to fix it. After that I do the updates.



pcguy -> RE: Would you agree to this? (9/18/2003 10:55:39)

Right....

It all depends on your business, and how you want to handle your clients.

I'm simply suggesting that the Macromedia MX packages address this issue, no matter which way you go. (Do the updates yourself, or allow them to do it).

The benefit is if you DO allow them to do the updates, they won't hurt anything.



Gil -> RE: Would you agree to this? (9/18/2003 11:08:20)

I addressed this issue a few years ago and included appropriate clauses in my contract.

FWIW - I do billing based on the type of work: $35.00/hr for HTML/CSS, $50.00/hr for Javascript/graphics, $75.00/hr for Perl/PHP, and $100.00/hr to FIX client mistakes.



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