What would you do next? (Full Version)

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erinatkins -> What would you do next? (9/24/2003 10:12:37)

Hi all,

Have a customer who has been hosting with us about a year. The Mantle Site has gotten more traffic & they do have a listing on Google adwords that has generated some traffic. They are asking for suggestion on what they can do to increase their traffic more.

They are getting about 1000 hits per day. Traffic is coming in under their main keywords - mantles & firesplaces.

We have discussed adding a store front but we are not sure that is the best solution.

If this was your site what would you try next?

Erin



Andy from Spain -> RE: What would you do next? (9/24/2003 11:53:47)

Hi Erin

I'd try a store [;)] (you knew I'd say that)

But seriously I would - it does seem from a look around that they have some great products and with a store they're going to be able to make it clear where they can ship to, prices and it's all a lot more immediate than asking for a catalogue etc.

The other thing I'd do is work on the page title tags - they're a bit sparse.

Cheers
Andy



Reflect -> RE: What would you do next? (9/24/2003 12:32:55)

I would look into your keywords. I went to the mantle page and you had two lines worth. Ideally to list a keyword the keyword to content ratio should be around 10%.

Also how about an affiliate type program.

Another thought would be submitting to genre based directories or search engines.

Yet another thought would be a link campaign. Target sites that complement your products and vice versa.

Brian



erinatkins -> RE: What would you do next? (9/24/2003 12:59:10)

Some good suggestions so far.

I have a feeling a storefront will be added.

I will look at the keywords.

Can you recommend any good affiliate programs?

Any other idea's?

Thanks



_gail -> RE: What would you do next? (9/24/2003 18:26:09)

Erin,

Would a "tell a friend" feature or monthly newsletter work for this business? If so, give one or both a try.

How 'bout also running some "old fashioned" display ads in newspapers (or in any media they've found successful with their brick and mortar advertising). In the ads they could feature their website and offer, say, a 10% discount for orders taken at their site. Do what the airlines do...advertise that there may be special offers at their website only...and come up with a few.

I'm using Commission Junction and Amazon. Maybe you can find specialized affiliates related to your client's products and services.

Haven't been involved long enough to report anything of substance about affiliate programs. The only thing I can point out at this time is to make sure you get paid enough if you're setting them up for a client....maybe hourly wage plus commission. It takes a lot, and I mean a LOT , of time finding and setting up ads.

Reflect...can you explain this a bit more:

quote:

Ideally to list a keyword the keyword to content ratio should be around 10%.


gail



Reflect -> RE: What would you do next? (9/25/2003 8:04:09)

quote:

Reflect...can you explain this a bit more:


My pleasure. When stipulating a keyword in the META you should take a few things into account...

Start generic at the top level pages and work the lower pages with much more specific terms.

Example (I did not research any keywords in this example):

Site theme is say a Ford car dealership.

At the index page level I would target: car automobile ford

I would then have categories of models as the next level/set of pages. Say the first model is a new Ford truck model F150. Here I would target: ford truck F150 new

I threw new on the end as the core phrase is the model but some might search for the phrase new ford f150 truck.

Now the next level of pages in this example would be the different types of F150 trucks. This is what I would call a money page if this was a cart system. I am unfamiliar with Ford (Go chevy!!!) but here is a made up one of XLT: Ford Truck F150 XLT

So now you have thrown a wide/big net at the top level and as you migrate down the keywords get more and more focused.

Now you also want to utilize your <title> tag. You want to reflect what the pages keywords convey in it. Again big/large net working down to a tighter net.

Next thing I would look at is your on page content and structure. I would open with a <h1> tag that conveys the pages loose content idea. I would then use <h2> and list the specific thought on the page utilizing that pages keywords. The opening paragraph I would then utilize the keywords again. I use CSS to make the <h1> and <h2> appear to be normal but bolded and +1 of my text base.

Page content:

When I write a page I let the content flow on the subject. I then do a weed out process. I rip out all the recognized "stop" words. I then remove words that are not relevant to the subject of the page on their own. Normally at this point I have a handful of possible keywords but it is still not decided what to use. Now I research the words over at Oveture and on actual engines. The words that are the most competitive (returns the most results) I target. Now to contradict myself here, I use reverse logic. I also will on some pages target keywords/phrases that are very germane to the page/site but not searched on much. I normally get a slew of content pages going so I can do this effectively. My rational is lower traffic but unrealized traffic. They are usually very highly targeted traffic that gets delivered.

Now onto the question you asked Gail...

Now I've heard that you want to shoot for around 10% keywords to content ratio. What I mean here is what you can see on the page. In the end ALt tags can help with some SEs also. I do progressive runs with a tool using different options. This one is one of the few that I use (Thanks Brett [:D])...

http://www.searchengineworld.com/cgi-bin/kwda.cgi

Again no keywords were reseached please do not take them to be the sought after ones.

Sorry to ramble it's easy to do on this subject [;)],

Brian



erinatkins -> RE: What would you do next? (9/25/2003 9:33:31)

Brian & Gail,

Thanks for the good information.

It looks like I have some more things to think about & suggest.

Erin



_gail -> RE: What would you do next? (9/25/2003 12:56:22)

quote:

Sorry to ramble it's easy to do on this subject


Don't apologize for your answers, Brian. They are REALLY good stuff!

I've been studying about SEO the past month and, to be honest, find it dizzying. None of my clients ever needed SEO so I haven't paid musch attention...and now that I am...it's certainly developed since last time I looked. I'm going to digest what you've written and know I will have even more questions.

I'm more than a little bit stumped by all the talk about getting as many links to your site as possible as it relates to being picked up by the spiders. Just go out and find theme related sites and beg and grovel to the owner to put your link to your site on their own? How in the world do you effectively go about doing that?

Also, it seems all anyone talks about is Google. Notwithstanding that there are few free engines or directories, what happened to the importance of others such as Yahoo! Why has Google taken such prominence?

Regarding Google rank. Several of the sited I designed for other have Google rankings. The two of my own have none. I don't get it. None of the sites have been optimized for search engines other than sticking in a few key words in the metatags. No conscious writing of key works and phrases into content at all. What's this all about?

gail



_gail -> RE: What would you do next? (9/25/2003 14:21:12)

More questions, I'm devouring this post. [:D]

quote:

do a weed out process. I rip out all the recognized "stop" words.


What are stop words?

quote:

The words that are the most competitive (returns the most results) I target.


Do you mean by target that they are the ones you plan to use in the metatags, title, h1 - h2, and the page content?

quote:

on some pages target keywords/phrases that are very germane to the page/site but not searched on much. I normally get a slew of content pages going so I can do this effectively. My rational is lower traffic but unrealized traffic.


So you put some of these words in the content too?

Just curious, do you do this for each and every page in an entire website, no matter how many pages, or do you focus on index.htm pages?

thanks,

gail



Reflect -> RE: What would you do next? (9/25/2003 15:45:09)

quote:

I'm more than a little bit stumped by all the talk about getting as many links to your site as possible as it relates to being picked up by the spiders. Just go out and find theme related sites and beg and grovel to the owner to put your link to your site on their own? How in the world do you effectively go about doing that?


I hit the Google directory. I just picked this one up from a post on this forum. It will show all the sites, in their DB, for your genre. It will also show PR. I don't solely base my initial contact on PR. If a site has low PR but it is new I review it and get a gut feeling. On the how I have a spread sheet that I use and some standard e-mails. I first add their site to my link pages. I then do an inital contact and follow up appropriately.

quote:

Also, it seems all anyone talks about is Google. Notwithstanding that there are few free engines or directories, what happened to the importance of others such as Yahoo! Why has Google taken such prominence?


You know I see the same things from here. I hear a wind blowing, totally unconfirmed, that the next year you might see some changes. My last site I targeted small topical directories, e-mail advertisements (read ad in a monthly e-letter) and athoritative sites. While they each only deliver minimal amounts they still deliver traffic that is targeted. As a whole they make a dent in the big picture. Don't forget the $49 US fast all the web review, I believe going from memory, that gets you in with a few of the bigger SEs. Lastly each site is different. One approach does not fit all.

quote:

None of the sites have been optimized for search engines other than sticking in a few key words in the metatags. No conscious writing of key works and phrases into content at all. What's this all about?


Can't answer that one without research.

quote:

What are stop words?


A, and, the, etc. Here is a good list...

http://www.searchengineworld.com/spy/stopwords.htm

quote:

Do you mean by target that they are the ones you plan to use in the metatags, title, h1 - h2, and the page content?

All of the above utilizing a nice blend.

quote:

So you put some of these words in the content too?


By all means. All I meant here is don't always go for the gold ring. Shoot for a search phrase that returns less results but it is more targeted to a certain item or content. This way the traffic that you receive while being less is more focused (Read make that sale).

quote:

Just curious, do you do this for each and every page in an entire website, no matter how many pages, or do you focus on index.htm pages?


Every page less the generic pages like contact us, shipping, etc.. I get pretty loopy towards the end of a few hour stint of this.

Brian



erinatkins -> RE: What would you do next? (9/26/2003 8:11:17)

Brian,

Thanks for some more good information.

Erin



_gail -> RE: What would you do next? (9/26/2003 8:37:30)

quote:

Regarding Google rank. Several of the sited I designed for other have Google rankings. The two of my own have none.


About an hour after I posted this the main index page of my digital camera site was ranked by Google...certainly far from the highest but I've seen worse. However, none of the other pages in the site have been ranked. What does all this mean?

btw, I really haven't really been massaging pages with key words and phrases yet.

thanks, gail



erinatkins -> RE: What would you do next? (9/26/2003 10:10:38)

Gail,

I looked at your site & keywords again -
<meta name="Keywords" content="digital camera, digicam, beginner, digital photography">

In my opinion (for whats it worth) I would add to beginner - Chances of someone searching under beginner & your site coming up are slim. I would say beginner photography, digital camera help, image editing, etc..

Look at what your major topics are & think what would people search for my site under.

Hope this helps.
Erin



Andy from Spain -> RE: What would you do next? (9/26/2003 10:23:29)

Hi

I think a major problem can be knowing exactly what your main keywords should be and how competitive they are. Have a look here www.wordtracker.com to find out what combinations people are searching on and then compare it with what you are aiming at in Google etc. 2 months ago I found a combination I hadn't thought about and it's paid dividends already.

Cheers
Andy



_gail -> RE: What would you do next? (9/26/2003 12:43:51)

quote:

www.wordtracker.com to find out what combinations people are searching on and then compare it with what you are aiming at in Google etc. 2 months ago I found a combination I hadn't thought about and it's paid dividends already


Thanks for the lead. I think I'll throw in the top three of the "top searched words today," per wordtracker:

1-sex
2-google
3-porn

Now THERE's some stuff to be themed with photography.

Am I catching on okay?! [:D][8D]

gail



Reflect -> RE: What would you do next? (9/26/2003 12:50:55)

quote:

About an hour after I posted this the main index page of my digital camera site was ranked by Google


I think Google heard and thought they better add it before you drove over there [:D].

Sorry, couldn't help it.

Brian



_gail -> RE: What would you do next? (9/26/2003 14:52:02)

quote:

I think Google heard and thought they better add it before you drove over there .


lol!


The Stop Word List explains that the words on the list are "filtered out of all searches."

If they are filtered out, why should I be concerned about these words at all? Extra bloat?

Sorry for all the questions...I'm going to begin digging in and have never played this ranking bit before.

thanks again,

gail



Reflect -> RE: What would you do next? (9/26/2003 15:21:33)

quote:

If they are filtered out, why should I be concerned about these words at all? Extra bloat?


Just words that you should not target for ranking purposes.

Brian



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