How big is too big (Full Version)

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Eli -> How big is too big (10/25/2003 18:21:47)

Would you say that a 32kb page is too big?



Mike54 -> RE: How big is too big (10/25/2003 20:28:13)

Hi Micah,

I don't think so.[8|]

I knew we had a discussion on this one before but I couldn't find it 'til I used "parrot" in the search field.[&:][8D][:D]
Check it out here.



Long Island Lune -> RE: How big is too big (10/25/2003 22:51:42)

quote:

Would you say that a 32kb page is too big?


I have a few around 45kb.
I kind of lost my perspective on load times since cable.



Acadia -> RE: How big is too big (10/25/2003 23:15:58)

I have a graphic site, and some of the animated gifs that I have displayed are about 300K. So I would think that 32K is very small compared to some of mine.

Since I redesigned my page with frames and less images per page, dial up users now stand a chance at viewing my graphics. They didn't before. Most of their systems froze up and then crashed :(



Eli -> RE: How big is too big (10/26/2003 2:05:07)

quote:


I kind of lost my perspective on load times since cable.


yeah, me too



Eli -> RE: How big is too big (10/26/2003 2:05:49)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike54

Hi Micah,

I don't think so.[8|]

I knew we had a discussion on this one before but I couldn't find it 'til I used "parrot" in the search field.[&:][8D][:D]
Check it out here.



i love the way threads digress!

good to see a post by John again :(



gorilla -> RE: How big is too big (10/26/2003 8:53:35)

How big is too big? It depends :-)

TO accurately check page load speed you can use webspeed from TAFWEB. It is free - EXTREMELY accurate and can be downloaded from here:

http://www.tafweb.com/products.html

<edit>

1. BTW to check things like css files .js files etc just click the dropdown box and select all files.

2. It is a very good idea indeed to set varying degrees of "web congestion" when using this program as it helps you see best and worse case scenarios.

3. Actually download everything in sight from that site - it's all free and all very good indeed.

</edit>


Jesper Berendtsen
Gorilla Group
København
Danmark
Søndag Oktober 26 2003



Long Island Lune -> RE: How big is too big (10/26/2003 15:17:23)

Cool tool. That was just what I was looking for. Now my perspective can be lost in cable, but still know the other loading speeds for my pages. Cheers gorilla [:)]



hvoice -> RE: How big is too big (10/26/2003 15:32:14)

32kb is really fast, I think 56k modems would be about 10 seconds, I wouldn't worry, and plus the majority of the world now has DSL, Cable, or T1.



gorilla -> RE: How big is too big (10/28/2003 9:38:21)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hvoice

32kb is really fast, I think 56k modems would be about 10 seconds, I wouldn't worry, and plus the majority of the world now has DSL, Cable, or T1.


No they don't.

JB



Peppergal -> RE: How big is too big (10/28/2003 9:50:31)

quote:

I wouldn't worry, and plus the majority of the world now has DSL, Cable, or T1.


Um, and what world are you living on? LOL

Of all the people I know who are connected to the internet, only three of them are on Cable. And one of them uses it for business. Every other person I know using the 'net accesses it from a dialup connection. People living in rural areas don't have the access that urban folks do.

It's not available to all people (like me. People on the main road two miles away can get it; they cannot give me a time when it will be available to me; maybe next year but they wouldn't give me a definite) It's not affordable for all people (like me...we're on a very limited budget and cannot afford it anyway; we use dial up with a single phone line. )

I suggest you keep that in mind when you are designing.



Eli -> RE: How big is too big (10/28/2003 10:10:34)

Great tool - thanks!

my page has steadily grown in size to 80kb - i put it on the diet and got it down to 12kb - just goes to show how effective the diet is.

You can look at the 80kb page here:

http://www.leisure-ideas.com/index2.asp

let me know what you think about loading times? [:D]



Nancy -> RE: How big is too big (10/28/2003 10:22:55)

One thing you must consider when working on load time is ALL the files that load with a page. Although your coding is near 12kb, the images must be added to that. Here's some information I obtained from your link with a total given for images also.

HTML document: http://www.leisure-ideas.com/index2.asp
Title: leisure-ideas.com
File Created Date: 10/28/2003
File Modified Date: 10/28/2003
Language: en-us
Referer: http://www.frontpagewebmaster.com/m_163519/tm.htm
Protocol: HyperText Transfer Protocol
Cookie: ASPSESSIONIDQSRBQCAS=ELDJCMDDEEPNOMAIFIKLFJKJ
Document Type: null
Document size: 11.1796875Kb
Total images size: 162.0341796875Kb
Total embeds size: 0Kb
Total size: 173.2138671875Kb

Load time is based on the total size listed above >>> 173+kb.

Not to discourage you, but that is a pretty hefty amount of images. You might examine how you could better utilize a stylesheet to add some of the color and reduce the number of images.

Nancy



Donkey -> RE: How big is too big (10/28/2003 10:31:20)

quote:

You can look at the 80kb page here:

http://www.leisure-ideas.com/index2.asp

let me know what you think about loading times?


It took a while to load (25 seconds) and the first time the page timed out.
I'm on 512kbps adsl.



Mike54 -> RE: How big is too big (10/28/2003 11:03:45)

Hi Micah,

To Nancy's point you might want to run the page through the single page analysis at Dr HTML for even more specifics.



Eli -> RE: How big is too big (10/28/2003 11:59:17)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nancy

One thing you must consider when working on load time is ALL the files that load with a page. Although your coding is near 12kb, the images must be added to that. Here's some information I obtained from your link with a total given for images also.

HTML document: http://www.leisure-ideas.com/index2.asp
Title: leisure-ideas.com
File Created Date: 10/28/2003
File Modified Date: 10/28/2003
Language: en-us
Referer: http://www.frontpagewebmaster.com/m_163519/tm.htm
Protocol: HyperText Transfer Protocol
Cookie: ASPSESSIONIDQSRBQCAS=ELDJCMDDEEPNOMAIFIKLFJKJ
Document Type: null
Document size: 11.1796875Kb
Total images size: 162.0341796875Kb
Total embeds size: 0Kb
Total size: 173.2138671875Kb

Load time is based on the total size listed above >>> 173+kb.

Not to discourage you, but that is a pretty hefty amount of images. You might examine how you could better utilize a stylesheet to add some of the color and reduce the number of images.

Nancy


holy shomly [:o]

yeap ... i'm discouraged [:o]



Pill -> RE: How big is too big (10/28/2003 15:24:41)

what?



Pill -> RE: How big is too big (10/28/2003 15:25:08)

what's in the world are you people talking about...? i am from mars~



Long Island Lune -> RE: How big is too big (10/28/2003 15:31:46)

quote:

single page analysis at Dr HTML for even more specifics

Another cool tool. [;)]



Eli -> RE: How big is too big (10/28/2003 15:35:19)

Dr HTML wouldn't even open the page!

Man ... i thought I was on to a winner with the design. I'm so discouraged right now. [:(]



Long Island Lune -> RE: How big is too big (10/28/2003 15:35:21)

Pill,

They're basically talking about the size of html pages, and different tools that tell you specific things about your page size, problems, analysis, etc... The tools are designed to inform you what things can be better maximized on your page, how to reduce loading times, things like that.



Mike54 -> RE: How big is too big (10/28/2003 15:37:40)

quote:

Dr HTML wouldn't even open the page!

Try again Micah, it didn't open for me the first time either.[;)]



Eli -> RE: How big is too big (10/28/2003 16:12:01)

i've now run the main image through Flash becuase it optimixes graphics far better than PS or even Image Ready.

Its not fabulous but I think its getting better?



Eli -> RE: How big is too big (10/28/2003 16:18:58)

DR HTML results:

quote:

Image Analysis The total number of bytes in images found on your web page is 32.0 KB.

The total number of bytes transferred while loading the page is 43.6 KB. This will take approximately 12.1 seconds to load over a 28.8 kbps network connection.




THAT IS BETTER!



Nancy -> RE: How big is too big (10/28/2003 16:52:14)

HTML document: http://www.leisure-ideas.com/index2.asp
Title: leisure-ideas.com
File Created Date: 10/28/2003
File Modified Date: 10/28/2003
Language: en-us
Referer: http://www.frontpagewebmaster.com/m_163519/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#164096
Protocol: HyperText Transfer Protocol
Cookie: ASPSESSIONIDQSRBQCAS=ELDJCMDDEEPNOMAIFIKLFJKJ; ASPSESSIONIDAAASRDAR=HMGDLKCDFFMHNJKIDPDAMKAL
Document Type: null
Document size: 11.62109375Kb
Total images size: 34.5234375Kb
Total embeds size: 0Kb
Total size: 46.14453125Kb


What a difference. Although you will also need to add in the file size for the Flash file - the one with the .swf extension to get the actual total, but I'm guessing it isn't much - maybe 10 or 12k - total size of the page would be well within the acceptable range I think.

well done!

Nancy



pageoneresults -> RE: How big is too big (10/29/2003 1:14:06)

Web Page Size Checker

Total WebPage Size: 11900 (bytes)
Visible Text Size: 3407 (bytes)
Size of HTML Tags: 8493 (bytes)
Text to HTML Ratio: 29.12%
Number of Images: 22
Largest Image Size: 15236 (bytes)
Size of All Images: 34037 (bytes)
Grand Total: Images+Html = 45937 (bytes)

You definitely should consider adding more visible text to that page...

SIM Spider



Eli -> RE: How big is too big (10/29/2003 3:50:54)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pageoneresults

You definitely should consider adding more visible text to that page...



can u explain more?



pageoneresults -> RE: How big is too big (10/29/2003 10:37:26)

If you run that page through the SIM Spider, you'll notice that there is very little visible copy. This means that there is very little indexible copy for the spider too. You have a respectable text to html ratio but the content is lacking in targeted copy.

Also, there are very few links that are visible to the spider on that page. Your home page is the entry point for most spiders. They will normally follow links from the home page for deeper spidering. If your links are hidden in some sort of javascript navigation that cannot be seen by spiders, then you are losing out on a very important part of the indexing process.



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