E-Commerce Dilemma: Shopping Cart? (Full Version)

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Peppergal -> E-Commerce Dilemma: Shopping Cart? (1/15/2004 20:39:57)

Okay, I'm really cooking on forms this week. I have another website which is a very small e-commerce site. At first I was planning on making just a simple set up for her using Paypal and the paypal shopping cart (it's external, on the paypal site) HOWEVER...

She does not want to charge a flat rate for shipping based on $$ spent, because her items are all different weights and prices (they are hand crafted candles....for instance, one candle item, such as a votive and holder could weigh a pound but be worth $7; another $7 candle item might weigh 4 pounds....like a large jar candle....)

She wants to have each order emailed to her first, then she'll calculate shipping and email the person back with the shipping price - then the person would pay for the order. This could cause a lapse of 24 hours.

I told her that I'd rather if the shipping could be calculated by the user just because I'm sure a lot of people will be annoyed by the delay, but I'm totally lost as to how to do this. (fortunately, this person is also my very best friend in the world and I'm designing the site as a favor to her and so she's rather patient with my ignorance; unfortunately, she wants the site up and running in a month. She doesn't have TOO many things to put up but enough to make it confusing for me!)

In my muddled mind, I was thinking of making an "Order Form" page, with everything on the site on that one page, as an option on the form. The problem is, I'd have to have a small image of each item on there so they'd know what it was. I'd have to make it tiny to fit them all on one page...larger images and descriptions would be on regular pages. They'd check off the items they want to order and when they click "Send Form" the "order" will go to my friend's email, and she'd then calculate the shipping and tell them how much the total order is.

The only other option is to weigh each item and have the shipping price based on each item's weight... but that would end up ripping the customer off if they bought more than two or three items...wouldn't it?



DarlingBri -> RE: E-Commerce Dilemma: Shopping Cart? (1/15/2004 21:43:44)

http://www.ecommercetemplates.com

I have one shopping cart from them I use over and over. You don't even have to use their templates; you can do your own site and add includes into your own pages. They do weight-based shipping per item and you can scale it, OR they have weight-based shipping with a USPS tie-in that is free to use.

I would discourage your friend from emailing her customers back with a shipping price; online shoppers want instant gratification. Orders will go way down if they have to get a ship price.

Alternatively, the base price for Express Mail is like $6.95 up to something like 5 pounds, isn't it? Can't she just flat rate at $6.95?



Mojo -> RE: E-Commerce Dilemma: Shopping Cart? (1/15/2004 21:44:39)

quote:

The only other option is to weigh each item and have the shipping price based on each item's weight... but that would end up ripping the customer off if they bought more than two or three items...wouldn't it?


A-hem... it is not ripping the customer off - it is "shipping *and* handling". [:D]

Most mail order companies pad the low prices with few dollars on the shipping *and* handling. Notice the emphasis on the "and handling". When I was with a hugely successful infomercial product the lawyers said it could be an FTC issue if not worded properly.

Also, adding the products weight to the product database is very common. I know of more than one place that also has the product dimensions. Anyhow, I don't see a reason why it would cost the customer more. Both UPS and the post office have solutions for just these situations - or you could just hard code an estimate per weight into the database.



Mojo -> RE: E-Commerce Dilemma: Shopping Cart? (1/15/2004 21:45:56)

oops... DB beat me with an easier solution...



adambrooks -> RE: E-Commerce Dilemma: Shopping Cart? (1/16/2004 15:42:33)

Use mals-e.com
- it's simple
- free
- has paypal integration
and is expandable to do just about anything.



Scotty -> RE: E-Commerce Dilemma: Shopping Cart? (1/18/2004 2:18:02)

We do quite well adding the shipping costs to the order, running the card, then advising the customer their order has shipped and here is the total. We don't pad the Shipping, and I honestly can't think of a complaint over the past year. (we briefly tried the "calculate shipping costs and email customer" route and it was a dismal failure)
Conversely, I'm convinced we'd do even more in on-line sales if we could figure out how to equitably add the shipping charges to the order.
Alas; the size, shape, weight, and bundling (as well as drop ships, 100lb weight programs, UPS vs. USPS), and we just haven't figured a good way around this.
Scotty



c1sissy -> RE: E-Commerce Dilemma: Shopping Cart? (1/18/2004 8:24:48)

quote:

She does not want to charge a flat rate for shipping based on $$ spent, because her items are all different weights and prices (they are hand crafted candles....for instance, one candle item, such as a votive and holder could weigh a pound but be worth $7; another $7 candle item might weigh 4 pounds....like a large jar candle....)


Hi Pepergal,
The shipping and handling are what are boggling me from starting to ship and sell my things, (along with completed site shopping cart, etc..)

Anyhow, I had contacted different crafters online as to how they do their shipping. What each one has emailed me back with, They take the furthest shipping distance from them, and use that for their cost on each item. So for me, I live in NJ, and would pick say Alaska or Washington State, and find out what it would cost if something were above the flat rate(which is by weight, not by cost of product) to ship. Boxes are free from the post office online as are the tapes to tape the boxes with. This of course is the usps shipping. Also if you go to stamps.com they are always offering a free scale for a trial membership with them.

All my items are also different sizes etc... so it is difficult to come up with a shipping cost without doing each item that I would ship to someone. Also, they suggested to include the shipping costs in with the purchase price. They said that this works better when they sell their items.

I hope that this might give you some ideas?



Scotty -> RE: E-Commerce Dilemma: Shopping Cart? (1/19/2004 1:31:01)

c1sissy
We also thought about using the most distant point as the cost for shipping. Unfortunately, we send out a lot of items weighing 50lbs or more and the price difference in shipping local and across country can be $30 a package. (which would certainly lose us the local trade).
We've seen competitors who up the price of their products by 5-10% so they can offer a "good deal" on shipping (e.g. $6.95 for any amount of item to anywhere in the US).
I offer this as a method to keep this thread going in the hopes we'll continue to get ideas of which I'll find the one that will work for us.
Regards, Scotty



c1sissy -> RE: E-Commerce Dilemma: Shopping Cart? (1/19/2004 6:50:43)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Scotty

c1sissy
We also thought about using the most distant point as the cost for shipping. Unfortunately, we send out a lot of items weighing 50lbs or more and the price difference in shipping local and across country can be $30 a package. (which would certainly lose us the local trade).
We've seen competitors who up the price of their products by 5-10% so they can offer a "good deal" on shipping (e.g. $6.95 for any amount of item to anywhere in the US).
I offer this as a method to keep this thread going in the hopes we'll continue to get ideas of which I'll find the one that will work for us.
Regards, Scotty


I can see your point in how you have items in a larger poundage. Other then my butlers, Which I most likely would not make to sell online as they are tons of work, and I doubt that I would ever get the price for them, my things don't weigh that much. I have things from embelished/handcrafted ornaments to all different size wall hangings and yard picks. I also make candles, which I would be hesitant to ship as the heat can do a number on them. If it is warm and they are not kept standing upright, this could ruin the candle as I use a very very soft wax.

When I see a thread such as this it sparks my interest as I have so much to learn in the area of shipping the products, shopping carts, and even to get my stite set up for selling. And since I am basically doing my site from hand coding, Iknow it is going to take a while to get this going. LOL, Not to mention photographing the products, and ideas in that regards.

You have a great idea in trying to keep this one going as I would be interested in others, and how they do their shipping.



Mojo -> RE: E-Commerce Dilemma: Shopping Cart? (1/19/2004 9:28:02)

Both the USPS and UPS have an API that you can work with. This will allow you to give accurate shipping costs (if you not using shipping as a revenue source). All you need are weights (and maybe sizes if you exceed their threshold).

Shipping costs are not that difficult to deal with. I am positive that you could cover 99% of all situations with a simple, non API, solution. I agree with Scotty - If you are not letting the customer know what shipping costs are *before* they purchase you are losing sales.

If you find yourself confused, look at your competitors and mimic what most of them are doing. That way, at least shipping will not be much of an issue with your customers (since your the same as others).

If your shopping cart can't work with shipping weights - get a new cart.



c1sissy -> RE: E-Commerce Dilemma: Shopping Cart? (1/19/2004 15:58:53)

quote:

If you are not letting the customer know what shipping costs are *before* they purchase you are losing sales.


So are you saying that including the shipping and handling into the sales cost is the wrong way to do this?

quote:

non API


could you explain what this is?

I don't have a shopping cart, and I really know nothing at all yet about them. I'm still working on learning the hand coding and how to set sites up. But I'm willing, as usual to learn about this.



Reflect -> RE: E-Commerce Dilemma: Shopping Cart? (1/20/2004 10:16:29)

quote:

You have a great idea in trying to keep this one going as I would be interested in others, and how they do their shipping.


The cart I use hits the api for the carriers. It also queries my DB for size and weight.

However I utilize USPS. All items are under the weight bump and under the size limit so I am good there for the overnight and express flat rates.

Brian



c1sissy -> RE: E-Commerce Dilemma: Shopping Cart? (1/20/2004 10:47:40)

Thanks reflect, but could you explain what api means?
Thanks in advance.



Mojo -> RE: E-Commerce Dilemma: Shopping Cart? (1/20/2004 15:53:13)

From Webopedia.com -
quote:

Abbreviation of application program interface, a set of routines, protocols, and tools for building software applications. A good API makes it easier to develop a program by providing all the building blocks. A programmer puts the blocks together.


quote:

quote:

If you are not letting the customer know what shipping costs are *before* they purchase you are losing sales.

So are you saying that including the shipping and handling into the sales cost is the wrong way to do this?



No, I am saying that if you are not letting the customer know the total price *before* the purchase you are losing sales. If you require them to wait for an email you are losing sales...



c1sissy -> RE: E-Commerce Dilemma: Shopping Cart? (1/20/2004 17:31:13)

quote:

No, I am saying that if you are not letting the customer know the total price *before* the purchase you are losing sales. If you require them to wait for an email you are losing sales...


Ahh, thank you. I understand that now. So, if you include the shipping in the cost of the product, then you are not doing anything wrong.(?) I could understand the email process causing lost sales as people want what they want now, not later.

Thank you on the api, though I have no idea what it is. I appreciate you explaining it to me.[;)]



Scotty -> RE: E-Commerce Dilemma: Shopping Cart? (1/21/2004 1:19:25)

Over at marketing experiments http://www.marketingexperiments.com/archives/shipping_charges.cfm
they are discussing different methods of adding the shipping/no shipping costs to your price.
Although I've yet to become a "member" I find their free newletter very interesting.
Regards, Scotty



c1sissy -> RE: E-Commerce Dilemma: Shopping Cart? (1/21/2004 6:42:56)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Scotty

Over at marketing experiments http://www.marketingexperiments.com/archives/shipping_charges.cfm
they are discussing different methods of adding the shipping/no shipping costs to your price.
Although I've yet to become a "member" I find their free newletter very interesting.
Regards, Scotty

Thanks Scotty, this is an interesting article. I appreciate your posting it to read.



Reflect -> RE: E-Commerce Dilemma: Shopping Cart? (1/21/2004 8:02:17)

quote:

So, if you include the shipping in the cost of the product, then you are not doing anything wrong


I think you would be in another lose-lose situation. One of the main factors for me is price, being in the top three. Once I have done a weed out on pricing I then look at the customer service aspect. Next I look at shipping and handling. I then make a purchase decision based on those items in that order. This way I am not over paying but I am also getting great CS to boot.

Just my purchasing thoughts as a consumer.

Brian



Mojo -> RE: E-Commerce Dilemma: Shopping Cart? (1/21/2004 8:57:41)

Just set up 2 or more sites. Have free shipping on one site and lower prices, but charge for shipping on another site. If you make the sites different enough to appeal to different segments you will sell a lot more overall - you may even double your sales. I do this and it works very well.



c1sissy -> RE: E-Commerce Dilemma: Shopping Cart? (1/21/2004 21:49:28)

quote:

Have free shipping on one site and lower prices,


If you are offering both, aren't you going to loose money? If you offer free shipping, this means that you are eating the costs of it, so this comes out of your profits. And then add to this a much lower cost, how would you stay floating? I would think that you would sink fast doing this.



Mojo -> RE: E-Commerce Dilemma: Shopping Cart? (1/22/2004 13:22:43)

It looks like I did not write very clear ... [:o]

It should have read "Have free shipping on one site and lower prices on another, but charge for shipping on second"

One of my competitors has at least a dozen sites that I am aware of... all selling the same things, but each site looks like it is it's own entity.

When I used to sell bracelets one of my competitors had 43 web sites. They sold more than bracelets, but they were all over the place with their sites (think "as seen on TV").



c1sissy -> RE: E-Commerce Dilemma: Shopping Cart? (1/22/2004 14:53:46)

quote:

It should have read "Have free shipping on one site and lower prices on another, but charge for shipping on second"

[;)] I was wondering how you would make any money doing it the way it stated first, lol.

That is an interesting way to do this.

Thanks bunches for your imput I appreciate it greatly.



Scotty -> RE: E-Commerce Dilemma: Shopping Cart? (1/23/2004 0:47:12)

Mojojo; I'd be interested in looking at your two sites or those of one of your competitiors who does the same concept with multiple sites.
Regards, Scotty



c1sissy -> RE: E-Commerce Dilemma: Shopping Cart? (1/23/2004 6:55:20)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Scotty

Mojojo; I'd be interested in looking at your two sites or those of one of your competitiors who does the same concept with multiple sites.
Regards, Scotty


I also would like to see this in action.

My craft site would be Deb's adorable crafts and gifts, so then I would have to come up with something of a different name for the second site (in additon to hosting etc...) Does it become complicated keeping track of all of this? Would people by chance notice the way that it is set up? What are the chances of having the same customer purchase from the same sites, and notice the same from shipping address? (I hope that these aren't stupid questions[&o]) I have to admit, this is a great idea though.[;)]



Peppergal -> RE: E-Commerce Dilemma: Shopping Cart? (1/24/2004 11:41:34)

This certainly has been interesting! Thanks for all the input and ideas.

I have to wonder - mojojo, isn't your idea of two different sites something that could get you in trouble with Google?



Mojo -> RE: E-Commerce Dilemma: Shopping Cart? (1/24/2004 14:19:30)

Folks, I don't include my sites in my signature (even though it would help back links) because I don't want some of you as competitors...

quote:

have to wonder - mojojo, isn't your idea of two different sites something that could get you in trouble with Google?


Screw Google.

Just be a little creative and you can do pretty much anything you want with them.



Peppergal -> RE: E-Commerce Dilemma: Shopping Cart? (1/24/2004 16:31:42)

quote:

because I don't want some of you as competitors...


LOL

quote:


Screw Google.


AAAAAAACCCCHHHHHH!!! (runs screaming out of the room to avoid the great Googlegod's thunderbolt......)



Peppergal -> RE: E-Commerce Dilemma: Shopping Cart? (1/24/2004 16:39:02)

quote:

Use mals-e.com
- it's simple
- free
- has paypal integration
and is expandable to do just about anything.


adambrooks,

do you use the USPS website tool with mals? I looked at it and it really looks perfect (the right price, too, as we need the least expensive solution right now.) however, I'm still confused as to how to integrate USPS shipping costs in there....

I've spent the entire afternoon researching this stuff. My webhost (hostfactory.net) has a shopping cart as an option, but I looked at it and really, it looks VERY confusing (Agora cart) and almost fear inducing for little me who really has a difficult time learning this stuff...

I've been looking on the Phorum at mal's and have found lots of questions, but not many answers for my situation. One person posted, in response to someone's detailed post:

"Umm, huh? You couldn't confuse me any more..."

I burst out laughing almost maniacally (sp?) scaring my children into wondering what my problem was...I laughed because I was glad to see someone as dense as me on there. (then the kids wanted to know what was so funny and they probably think I've totally lost my mind, but hey...)

Anyway - I really like the mal's system so far, and may use it and even upgrade to premium IF I can figure out how to set up the USPS shipping API or whatever.......



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