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Peppergal
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Fluid or Fixed? - 2/19/2004 18:22:39
Fluid or fixed?
I'm getting a little frustrated with my pages that look beautifully on my browsers but friends view them and there are divs overlapping and things "mooshed" together.
Several people don't even KNOW that you can go to "View - Full Screen."
One friend has an extra toolbar on Internet explorer, and when she viewed my Candles site page, everything was overlapping. I was aghast - and out of reflex did a quick "Full Screen" and everything looked fine. My friend exclaimed "How did you do that?" And this person has had a computer much longer than me. (I might add that when I preview my sites in browsers, I do not have them set for "full screen", though often when I'm browsign a particular site, I'll use full screen to eliminate the junk at the top of my screen. Why people want all those toolbars on there- and then not know how to use them anyway...is beyond me....)
So. I thought that by using a fluid design - using percentages instead of pixels for placement, would allow people to see my site the way it was intended no matter what resolution or screen size they use. I had no idea that things like extra broswer tool bars made a difference in the display of the page. If you go and look at the pages in regular, then go to full screen, you'll see a major difference.
This is very frustrating. What can I do about this? Should I go fixed? I thought using percentages would be teh best option, but apparantly not.
Most of the people viewing my websites are going to be total novices who don't have a clue about anythign other than opening up IE and pressing "GO".
< Message edited by Peppergal -- 2/19/2004 18:29:57 >
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c1sissy
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RE: Fluid or Fixed? - 2/19/2004 19:12:21
quote:
So. I thought that by using a fluid design - using percentages instead of pixels for placement, would allow people to see my site the way it was intended no matter what resolution or screen size they use
Good idea, I read somewhere, but can't remember where, that you should use percentages for your pages. There was a good bit of information on it, but of course I can't remember where I had read this at. I prefer percentages and will check out the pages by sizing them to see how it works out.
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As decreed by Jesper 5-24-2003.
The only stupid question is... the one that is never asked!!
http://directory.css-styling.com
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Peppergal
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RE: Fluid or Fixed? - 2/19/2004 19:29:55
I read that in several places, during my quest for information on building with CSS. However, the experience with my friend's browser, really threw me for a loop.
There must be SOMETHING wrong with what I'm doing....?
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c1sissy
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RE: Fluid or Fixed? - 2/19/2004 19:37:16
quote:
ORIGINAL: Peppergal
I read that in several places, during my quest for information on building with CSS. However, the experience with my friend's browser, really threw me for a loop.
There must be SOMETHING wrong with what I'm doing....?
I'm doing some searching on Inheritance, seems that I need to read up on this as well as decendants etc... and how to apply them to the horizontal nav so that I understand them. I'll do a search and see what I come up with and post links for you. I don't think you are doing anything wrong. It could just be some fine tuning, like putting in the percentages. Look at the link for the floating thumbs, when you resize that window, the things jump into place with the size of the window. So, maybe that is how you need to do it so that all falls into place?
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Deb-aka-c4Ksissy
high panjandurum and alpha female of the silverback tribe
As decreed by Jesper 5-24-2003.
The only stupid question is... the one that is never asked!!
http://directory.css-styling.com
http://fmsforum.com
http://positioniseverything.net/
http://www.tanfa.co.uk/
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paulie
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RE: Fluid or Fixed? - 2/19/2004 21:13:08
Karen,
I assume that since you posted this in the CSS forum that you are not necessarily using tables for your layout. The reason I mention that is one of the first things I ever remember learning at Outfront was from a post Thomas had written on table widths.
Please bear in mind that it was before CSS had really gathered steam as the way to layout pages. At the time he advised using a 750 pixel table width for the outer table. What you do inside of that is up to you - percentages, pixels, whatever.
The reason he picked 750 was that even with the MS Office toolbar in place (very common on corporate networks a few years ago) the page would still load with no horizontal scroll bar needed. The 750 also assumes a browser setting of 600X800, still roughly half of them, and at the time of his post, the majority.
I have held to that rule of thumb with good success, and I still use 750px tables (centered) to put everything inside of, rarely nesting more than two tables deep.
I have great respect for the talents of those who can do it all with CSS, but it's just too frustrating for me at this point. Using at least one outer table though will assure you that whatever you put inside it will display the same dimensions regardless of browser size, screen resolution, toolbars, etc.
Not sure if that's the way you want to go, but it has always worked for me. Funny how different people favor different approaches and technologies. I enjoy the challenge of ASP, but working with CSS for more than fifteen minutes makes me want to twist the heads off of some furry little animals. I guess I still have a lot to learn about CSS!
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Peppergal
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RE: Fluid or Fixed? - 2/19/2004 21:24:34
Paulie,
Actually, my designs for the site in question are a combination of CSS and tables. I really don't want to use tables for anything but the presentation of the data -
http://www.lightexpressionscandles.com/container.htm will show you what I mean. The table is where the items for sale are being presented. Everything else is all contained within CSS divs.
I want to use CSS for the main design and layout, and keep the tables strictly for the information.
I can set it all up to fit within a 750 px div if need be, I think. Perhaps that's the way to go....?
Thanks for the idea!
It's funny - CSS can be frustrating, but I'd rather do CSS than anything else. LOL I love CSS and the only reason I'm using tables at all is because of the few Netscape 4.7 type stragglers who may want to look at my sites.
< Message edited by Peppergal -- 2/19/2004 21:26:34 >
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Giomanach
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RE: Fluid or Fixed? - 2/20/2004 3:46:19
Just to throw my bit in:
I, now, tend to design my sites to a fixed width of either 700px of 750px, and center on the page, within a div layer. That way, I can use position: relative; to layout the nav, top header etc, and only have to use absolute to position the page content, if using a vertical nav bar, other wise, that way I can just have it all in relative positions, and all works fine, no matter what size screen you are using.
Like I said, just throwing my bit in
Dan
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Peppergal
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RE: Fluid or Fixed? - 2/22/2004 1:37:57
I'm sorry for not responding to this. I haven't had much time to play with the website the past couple days. Thanks for all the great suggestions!!
BTW - the browser in question is none other than IE6. Surprised? LOL
So I should change them all to relative instead of absolute?
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Peppergal
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RE: Fluid or Fixed? - 2/22/2004 9:22:58
Oh, Gorilla!! I"d never threatean ANY animals, especially ones that smell of that heavenly banana scent. I can't think of a better smelling breath....it wasn't me!!!!!!!!!
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paulie
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RE: Fluid or Fixed? - 2/22/2004 10:23:00
quote:
BTW Paulie stick with it, its worth it, imagine (in your particular case) using your asp skills to serve up differently styled pages/section of pages depending on various variables eg the whole site could have a different look depending on the season. Salivating yet?
Yes, that's the part that keeps me interested. Just the other day, I was tinkering with an ASP script that would allow the user to change the look of the page just by selecting a radio button on a form, and I actually got it to work! It could come in handy for folks who want to view a site with a larger font size, or to allow the user to change "skins". I can activiate a different style sheet based on their selection or as you suggested, the server clock.
It's mostly the nit-picky syntax of CSS and the heirarchical relationships of inheritance that I need to wrap my brain around. I think I'm going to make this my next area of focus though, because I like the efficiency of controlling lots of variables from a single place. It's just frustrating sometimes that we have to maintain so many different skill sets just to build a basic page - html, javascript, server-side script, css...
I've been using the style assistant as a syntax guide, but I need to go through some tutorials and develop a basic framework to apply, and then build on that as my understanding of it grows.
Maybe I'll earn my fourth muffin here in the CSS Forum!
quote:
If you can grasp ASP, which I also tried to learn, but droped it to focus on the xhtml and css better, then you would be able to get CSS.
Deb - maybe we can help each other along. I've often admired your dedication to learning CSS, and thought you would really enjoy the power of ASP if you decided to learn server-side scripting.
< Message edited by paulie -- 2/22/2004 10:27:21 >
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c1sissy
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RE: Fluid or Fixed? - 2/22/2004 10:37:03
quote:
It's mostly the nit-picky syntax of CSS and the heirarchical relationships of inheritance that I need to wrap my brain around.
Paulie, this is what I am working on right now, and not making much progress.  But I know if I really really focus on it that I'll get it. Like Nancy said, it is sort of a recall of the can't get the includes in front page. lol.
quote:
Deb - maybe we can help each other along
I'm all for it!
quote:
I've often admired your dedication to learning CSS,
Thank you.
quote:
and thought you would really enjoy the power of ASP if you decided to learn server-side scripting
I was using the wrox books for learning, and was wizing through this, UNTIL, I hit variables. I was getting all the questions correct except for maybe 1.5 in the quizes that they have at the end of the chapters. lol, even though variables was only I believe chapter 3!
But, I figured that would come in time, and that the thing I needed to really focus on and understand totally is the coding, xhtml etc... Then maybe the ASP would be a bit better in understanding.
Not sure if that makes sense or not, lol
_____________________________
Deb-aka-c4Ksissy
high panjandurum and alpha female of the silverback tribe
As decreed by Jesper 5-24-2003.
The only stupid question is... the one that is never asked!!
http://directory.css-styling.com
http://fmsforum.com
http://positioniseverything.net/
http://www.tanfa.co.uk/
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paulie
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RE: Fluid or Fixed? - 2/22/2004 10:51:17
quote:
muffins only start at 1000 posts!
Well, okay. Four stars then! Geez, it's taken me about three years to get where I am...
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