WordArt on FrontPage (Full Version)

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gg5000 -> WordArt on FrontPage (2/27/2004 14:48:39)

Hello guys,

I have an issue with WordArt in FP. I have done some logos for a website using WordArt, and they display beautifully on the machine I'm working on. But if I look at that site on a PC that doesn't have the correct font installed, then the particular machine just substitutes the font with a default. I expected that to happen using standard fonts, but I thought that using WordArt was almost like using a .gif or .jpg, which doesn't need to reference the font on each machine.

Here's the question... How can I take my WordArt logos and turn them into a format that will display correctly everywhere?

Here's the link to the page: http://aaroncomess.com/inhishouse.htm. All the text is done in WordArt, and the font that should display is called Palace Script.

Thank you so much for your reply!



Rajman1138 -> RE: WordArt on FrontPage (2/27/2004 15:10:42)

One quick way is to take screen cap of the word art and save as a jpeg.



d a v e -> RE: WordArt on FrontPage (2/27/2004 15:59:28)

better stil do it in a graphics app, perferably one with antialiasing capabilities to smooth the edges of the letters, gif might work better for this particular text



gg5000 -> RE: WordArt on FrontPage (2/27/2004 16:11:23)

Thanks for the reply Raj,

The problem with that solution, is that there's a background that will be a part of the .jpg that won't match exactly with the site theme on the site, specially if the positining or sizing changes. I don't have any high end image editors, so I can't take that screen cap and turn it into just a stand alone logo.

Any other suggestions?

Thank you so much for your help!



gg5000 -> RE: WordArt on FrontPage (2/27/2004 16:22:17)

Hello Dave,

Thanks for the tip. But I don't have any good image editing apps. Only the Microsoft stuff. Do you know of an app (freeware would be best) that I can use for this? I bet Photoshop is all I'd need, (and the $400 they ask for their software) but in the meantime I'm sure there's a cheaper solution.

Is there a way to have the font install itself from the site? I have a hunch that eventhough it's a valid solution, it can be a security issue.

All your input is highly appreciated!



BobbyDouglas -> RE: WordArt on FrontPage (2/27/2004 16:23:05)

Provide a URL to the page, and tell us where the word art should go. Then post a screenshot of the word art, I will see what I can do to accomplish the same task in photoshop or paintshoppro.



gg5000 -> RE: WordArt on FrontPage (2/27/2004 17:51:43)

Thank you so much Bobby!

Here's the URL in question: http://aaroncomess.com/inhishouse.htm

The screenshot of that page from my computer is here: http://web.wt.net/~lecil/screenshot.bmp (2.97M)

The text on that page was all done using WebArt. I'm still working on getting the right font and layout for the content, but the logo itself (at the top of the page) is definitely staying.

Again, I really appreciate your doing this for me! And if it's too difficult to do, perhaps you may have a suggestion for designing this using a different technique.

Thanks again!!!



BobbyDouglas -> RE: WordArt on FrontPage (2/27/2004 18:06:25)

Never save bmp files, always use JPG. bmp are too big.

Ok I will get started on this. Can you paste the text you want for me please?

What I will do is make the text and have a transparent background.



BobbyDouglas -> RE: WordArt on FrontPage (2/27/2004 18:07:49)

Again, I really appreciate your doing this for me! And if it's too difficult to do, perhaps you may have a suggestion for designing this using a different technique
- If I was you, I would make your background for the page that one image, and then just make some text boxes have NORMAL text, not some fancy stuff. Just what I would do if I was you.



gg5000 -> RE: WordArt on FrontPage (2/27/2004 18:29:32)

Bobby,

You're a gentleman and a scholar!

Here is the text: http://web.wt.net/~lecil/text.txt

I think your suggestion makes sense by the way...



BobbyDouglas -> RE: WordArt on FrontPage (2/27/2004 19:14:14)

mrbobdouglas[dot]com/stuff/font.gif is the first design for it. Tell me what you need changed on it.

I still think you should take my advice about just using normal text.



gg5000 -> RE: WordArt on FrontPage (2/27/2004 19:29:36)

I'm starting to see your point loud and clear Bobby...

Eventhough what you did is perfect because it has a transparent background, the edginess of the font is a little too rough... I need to redesign the whole thing using the logo and the background as one image, and like you said, I'll do the text using textboxes with a reasonable font, like Arial or something......

I'm sure there are quite a few ways to do what I want to do, but not with my limited knowledge and resources.

Do you like Paintshop Pro more than Photoshop? I really need to get a good imaging app that gives me flexibility with this kind of thing...

Thank you so much for your time and energy Bobby, I'll go back to the drawing board with this one...

I absolutely appreciate all your efforts!



Rajman1138 -> RE: WordArt on FrontPage (2/28/2004 1:12:44)

What Version of FP do you have because some of the earlier ones Have Image Composer on the 2nd CD which is a great little Graphics program that I used to use for a long time.



BobbyDouglas -> RE: WordArt on FrontPage (2/28/2004 13:12:16)

You really need both Adobe Photoshop and Jasc Paint Shop Pro to do "basic" graphics. If you plan to go all out, you could pcik something up like 3d Studio Max or Cinetography.



Nancy -> RE: WordArt on FrontPage (2/29/2004 1:17:55)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BobbyDouglas

You really need both Adobe Photoshop and Jasc Paint Shop Pro to do "basic" graphics.


Bobby,

I'm afraid I am going to have to respectfully, and totally, disagree with the quoted statement.

Both are not needed. One or the other will suffice, as well as other graphics programs such as Fireworks. Thousands of web sites have been made using only one of the programs named, without the original creator of the graphics having numerous programs.

gg5000 - If you have a limited budget, Paint Shop Pro has been a very popular and more than adequate program for doing web graphics. If you were to have a bit more money to spend, you might take a look at Fireworks - which does an excellent job also. No one will deny the excellent job Photoshop can do, but the learning curve as well as the cost may well be overkill for one simple web site.

As Raj has mentioned, some stand alone versions of FrontPage came with Image Composer on the 2nd CD, which will also do a good job for you as a graphics program, with the added bonus of possibly being already in your possession.

As for the Word Art - it is not an image at all, or even almost an image. In this case "if it walks like a duck" is not true. It is done using what is known as Scalable Vector graphics: W3C Scalable Vector Graphics As far as I know, the Word Art feature of Word and FrontPage do not do a very good job of following the standards and should probably be avoided.



Nancy



BobbyDouglas -> RE: WordArt on FrontPage (2/29/2004 1:31:04)

Interesting points Nancy, maybe I did not determine the term "basic" enough.
Yes, you do not need both programs to make graphics. But there are some things you can't accomplish in Paint Shop Pro, that you can in Photoshop, and vice versa. To me, I need both and use both for basic graphics. Graphic designers need both in order to do work. You can't just work from one program. Down the road of graphic design, you will learn the pros and cons of each program and determine which program is best in order to accomplish your task.

Paint Shop Pro would be the best choice for starters, then move onto Photoshop and/or Fireworks (These two are a little bit harder to use, and require more time to master).

I almost always use both programs to create graphics.



d a v e -> RE: WordArt on FrontPage (2/29/2004 4:51:20)

what do you need psp for that photoshop can't do?
if you're finding you need both programmes then you should have bought fireworks (and only fireworks) instead!



BobbyDouglas -> RE: WordArt on FrontPage (2/29/2004 12:13:31)

I usually make a lot of my initial designs inside PSP.

I am not a fireworks fan, Photoshop is too popular to not have it. PSP also does different features with fonts, has different tools associated with the program. Photoshop does have a lot of tools too, in fact, it has more, but some things are a lot harder to do in Photoshop when comparing it to PSP.



d a v e -> RE: WordArt on FrontPage (2/29/2004 13:03:42)

each to their own! but i wouldn't trade fireworks for anything



BobbyDouglas -> RE: WordArt on FrontPage (2/29/2004 13:09:20)

Fireworks can't handle psd files, correct?

Wouldn't you find that as a problem? Since the majority of web design graphic designers currently use Photoshop 7.0.



d a v e -> RE: WordArt on FrontPage (2/29/2004 13:33:25)

nope.
it *can* import photoshop files and text and other bits are largely editable. shapes don't appear to be, and brush effects aren't probably editable as live effects but it comes through as layered document just fine. at least that's with PS6, i only use 7 at work so can't say definitely for that.

I also wouldn't be so sure that the majority of web design graphic designers use PS more instead of FW but who knows?! it all also opens freehand files (no surprises) and can import .AI 7 format just fine.
of couse it's also down to what you like and you're used to. there seems to be a lot of support for psp (and obviosuly PS) but give me fireworks any day. of course if i'm doing a lot of photo stuff i'll probably still do it in Photoshop out of habit, though a lot (but not all) of what you can do can be replicated in fireworks.



Peppergal -> RE: WordArt on FrontPage (2/29/2004 13:40:44)

quote:

Photoshop is too popular to not have it.


Well for a lot of us it's too #$#@$ expensive TO have it.

bobby posted some free graphics programs in the Links and Resources forum, I believe.

What one *really needs* is all dependent on what one is planning to do. I have found PSP, with the plugin filters Eye Candy and Flaming Pear, to be exactly what I need to accomplish my goals. If you're going really heavy into graphic design then that's a different story - but for most basic web designs, PSP is certainly enough.



BobbyDouglas -> RE: WordArt on FrontPage (2/29/2004 13:40:50)

I also wouldn't be so sure that the majority of web design graphic designers use PS more instead of FW but who knows?!
- Well.. I get a lot of requests to modify templates for people. So far EVERY template I have edited, has been in PS. Just take a look on template web sites. I know boxedart has ALL psd documents too.

I have been meaning to mess with Fireworks for quite some time now. Once I get my new computer I will install it and learn to use it.

I hear a lot of mixed responses about Fireworks. Most people are already acustomed to play with PS or PSP, thus they do not try another one (like me). About 50% of the people that do try it, either switch 100% to it, or the other 50% dump it.

Offhand, does FW do anything a lot easier that PSP or PS does?



BobbyDouglas -> RE: WordArt on FrontPage (2/29/2004 13:43:06)

quote:

Well for a lot of us it's too #$#@$ expensive TO have it.

- Most young graphic designers do not buy it.

I don't agree that software companies should charge so much for one product. Imagine how many more people would be using PAID versions if it was not as expensive?



d a v e -> RE: WordArt on FrontPage (2/29/2004 13:53:17)

i haven't used psp much except to play with the demo so i won't compare it much to that.
vector work in fireworks is soooo much easier than in PS (also psp i found a bit clunky initially...) and being able to work modelessly, in the sense that editing vectors and bitmaps is seamless. also virtually everything is applied as a live effect, i.e. you can back and edit it however and whenever.
it helps if you have a print design background (like i do) so that using tools similar to those in freehand (and to some extent illustrator or corel draw, at least the techniques) makes it easier. a lot of people have trouble moving from the more bitmap based approach of PS particualrly with masks and selections.

oh optimisation and slicing also comes to mind as being easier because evrything is done in the same interface (no switching to image ready!)

well give it a test run when you have some free time and see how you get on!



Peppergal -> RE: WordArt on FrontPage (2/29/2004 13:57:47)

quote:

Most young graphic designers do not buy it.


Well, the ethical ones do. LOL.

I agree, it's ridiculous that they charge such a high price for it. If it were close to PSP - even if it were a little more, I would consider it. But never, for my needs, would I pay the price they are asking for it. And I wouldn't stoop to using a pirated version, never, no way, no how. My integrity means something to me.



BobbyDouglas -> RE: WordArt on FrontPage (2/29/2004 14:06:55)

d a v e
- You make it sound a lot better than most people have. I will try it and let others know in my opinion what makes the program better from the rest.

oh optimisation and slicing also comes to mind as being easier because evrything is done in the same interface (no switching to image ready!)
- Not sure about PS 6.0, but 7.0 that is done inside the same interface. ImageReady is mainly for making .gif that consist of more than one images- thus an animation.

Well, the ethical ones do. LOL.
- Yes. Hehe.



d a v e -> RE: WordArt on FrontPage (2/29/2004 14:10:53)

quote:

You make it sound a lot better than most people have.


i'm interested to hear what criticism people have of fireworks - of course it's not perfect! or if there's something that their particular editor can do and were wondering if fireworks can do it.



Nancy -> RE: WordArt on FrontPage (2/29/2004 14:24:44)

quote:

- Most young graphic designers do not buy it.


And those people are THIEVES and NOT graphic designers. Bobby, please keep in mind that Outfront has a zero tolerance policy for anyone suggesting software should be stolen. Each person is entitled to their opinions of what a company should charge for its software, but the fact remains, it should be purchased, just as any professional needs to make an investment in the tools needed for their chosen profession.

I do also think this topic has strayed too far off the original problem. If anyone would like to continue this discussion regarding the graphics programs mentioned here, a new topic should be started in the Graphics Section.


Nancy



BobbyDouglas -> RE: WordArt on FrontPage (2/29/2004 15:00:15)

Continue this discussion on: http://www.frontpagewebmaster.com/m-185789/tm.htm

Sounds good, maybe someone could split the topic for us. It is a good discussion on both graphic programs, and now pirated software [;)]
I talked to spooky about splitting another thread, but he said it was rather hard to split threads here. Maybe someone else knows an easy way to do it.

And those people are THIEVES and NOT graphic designers.
- Yea, they are theives, and it is wrong to do. But do I blame them? Nope. Just because they are not ethical, doesn't mean they are not graphic designers.

it should be purchased, just as any professional needs to make an investment in the tools needed for their chosen profession.
- Yes they should purchase all the software they use. And they should follow their religion to the pinpoint. But do they? Not many people do. And it is so easy to download these programs, there is no incentive to PAY for overpriced software. It is something that software developers will fight forever until a company makes a stand and lowers their price while taking into consideration 17 y/o kids will almost never have enough money to buy something like 3d Studio Max.

I am not suggesting anyone to go steal software. Just making some points about the price of the software vs the amount of people who pirate it. A distinct difference from saying "go pirate it because it is too expensive"

Finish discussing this on: http://www.frontpagewebmaster.com/m-185789/tm.htm



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