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BobbyDouglas
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360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 3/4/2004 19:09:59
I am working on a proposal for a real estate company who is in need of a 360 tour of each house they plan to showcase.
What are some of my options here in developing something like this?
I have heard about a few other companies who specialize in the 360 tours (usually targetting real estate companies for showcasing their homes).
My thought about acheiving the 360 tour result is have one large picture that will move left and right depending where the cursor is located.
In order to do this, would I need to have a special type of high quality camera to take the pictures?
There will most likely be the need to do around 100-1000 per year or more.
Is there a seperate program I could purchase that would automatically create these tours by inserting the picture?
Would this be a plug-in inside Flash that I could purchase- or would it be seperate?
Is anyone aware of any software that would aid in the creation of the 360 tours?
I am really looking forward to your feedback on this issue.
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d a v e
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 3/5/2004 1:25:30
first of all i'll start by saying i know more or less nothing about this :)
quicktime do some sort of 360 degree jobbie, e.g. 360 panorama/interior that i have viewed on pages before but as to how it is made i don't know!
sorry that's not very helpful but maybe someone knows more about this...
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Shirley
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 3/5/2004 2:49:36
I prefer photovista panorama software from iseemedia.com or 3dvista studio or 3dvista show from 3dvista.com I have also tried FLIX from wildform.com
IMHO a java viewer or a flash viewer are better than quicktime and I am not a fan of the one shot cameras. I do it the old fashioned way with a tripod and pan around and take pics and stitch them. They take longer to create but I like the results better.
Having said that the site you mentioned appears to have a higher quality of images than most of the one shot outfits out there.
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Tjarda Leegsma
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 3/5/2004 6:56:02
You should try Ulead Cool 360.
It is very easy and it exports in a uleadformat. More possibilities and a quick time format.
The only thing you have to do is make about 20 photo's in a circle around you. The program stitches the photo's. Now you can make your 360 Tour.
Here are some results to see.
http://www.eetcafesalud.nl/Panorama.htm
http://www.oude-raadhuis.nl/fotopagina.htm at the end of the page
Greetings from Holland
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Mary Mary
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 3/9/2004 23:52:03
The info on the one shot Canon camera looks very interesting. Stitching can be painful. A few years ago I wrote a tutorial on creating 360 tours for classroom teachers (warning - very old web page!), http://suskiwebdesign.com/resources/virtualtour.htm. Keep us posted on the lens!
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d a v e
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 3/10/2004 1:06:56
i sometimes use a canon G5 at work - it's nice! not for 360's though ;)
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IgotDreams
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 3/22/2004 17:54:52
I am the resident expert! I build websites for realtor's here is my website;
http://www.RealtorLeadsOnline.com
So anyways, I wanted to give Realtor's the feature of doing there own virtual tours. So I researched all over the net. I found out that there wasn't really a good stitching software, not a good enough one that the Realtor's would stand behind. Or the programs where to complicated for them.
So I decided I would make a company and host the tours and send out a photographer and offer more services, a better service and for less.
http://www.ExtremeVirtualTours.com
So I set out and bought the 0-360.com lens, tripod and camera equipment (Cannon G5). Well I got the lens, it was very well made. I took photos outside and inside my Toyota Highlander. They came out pretty good. A little grainy but well enough to go online. When I got inside, in lower light situations, the virtual tours were real grainy. Because you cannot use flash with this system, you have to shoot manual mode. I could not get a good focus and the average lighting in the house is very poor (well to poor for the lens). Long story short, I decided I was going to use the lens when I could and then use the multiple photo stitch method as a backup. Let me tell you the multiple photo stitch method sucks. For one, your going to need more storage discs. (flash cards, memory sticks) cause you have to shoot a ton of photos. Second your going to need a FishEye lens if you want the photo to have a better vertical range. Which causes stitching more difficult.
Well I thought I had it all figured out, go out on my first photo shoot, the house is dark. Even at 10:00 in the morning here in sunny Florida, I got back at 2:00 still to dark. Long story short, I had to cancel the job and now I am going back tomorrow with new equipment. After some more research and $4,000.00 in the hole, I have solved all problems.
I bought an Ipix lens and software. Very expensive. $2,000. just for the lens, tripod head, software and software upgrade. Thats without the camera.
BUT, the lens is 185 degree. That means I only take 2 photos and use the software to stitch at only 2 points. This also gives me full 360 degree virtual tours. It gets the tripod in the photo, but you put a black circle over it to hide it, it only shows when you look directly down. ALSO FOLKS, you can now use flash!
So you can see why the IPIX 185 degree lens is your answer. Now you just need to host the tours, you can use IPIX, or I can do it for you, we can work out a price. So if anyone want to partner up and make some cash in your area, let me know, I only do virtual tours in Orlando, but with you were you live now, we now can do it in multiple places with my website.
As far as the 0-360 lens they will not take it back. I have only had it for 2 weeks. Thats how I found this board, I was looking for other 0-360 lens people that have the same problems.
Oh well!
There you have it, my virtual tour story.
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IgotDreams
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 3/23/2004 17:13:11
no that is an outside shot! Outside shot come out well. The inside shots are the difficult ones. I just discovered a problem that helped tremendously.
In the G5, there is a setting in manual mode to bring down the shutter speed. This was the answer, currently it could be defaulting at 1/125 or around there. Bring it down, like 1/20, very low, it will actually brighten the LCD screen as you do this.
Hopefully this helps!
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BobbyDouglas
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 3/23/2004 17:44:33
Ah ha. Clears up your point a lot then. I don't know what an inside shot looks like, I will have to request an example of one from 0-360.
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helge
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 4/5/2004 10:33:45
Hi guys,
first of all, you have to think about the technology you wanna use.
Which has the best useability, ergonomical navigation and volume of functionality.
For the best useability is a main thing the grade of circulation.
How many users can see my panorama?
Do i need a plugin or some xtra software?
So, Flash is the only technology working out of any plugins.
Cause since the IE 5.5 the Flash player is included.
Macromedia says the grade of circulation is like 98%!
Java VR needs since the IE 5.5 the external JVM Plugin and QTVR his Player to download.
So, if i wanna show my panorama to the world, i would implement it with flash!
There you can normally use all kinds of multi media based developments. Like movies, audio, text, gfx e.t.c
think about it
Helge
<? I now, that my english is very bad - but german teachers are not the smartest ;o) /?>
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BobbyDouglas
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 4/5/2004 13:31:37
Nice input. However, flash VR tours have poor quality compared to those that require you to download Java / QuickTime.
I bet more people have Java than the amount who have flash. I would also think the amount of people who have flash is just a little greater than those who have Quick Time.
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d a v e
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 4/5/2004 15:45:45
quick vote on here maybe - or somewhere on the forum about has flash and who has java (and who browses with java enabled) I would be very suprised if more people had java, but it would be interesting to see.
Personally if i wanted to see around a property i would be willing to donwload quictime/vr plugin/flash (if i din't have them) and i would assume that a large proportion of others would, but that may be a dangerous assumption. still if they are serious about a property why wouldn't they??
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Eli
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 4/5/2004 18:06:37
used ipix for years - very happy with both the design and the user end result.
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helge
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 4/6/2004 6:25:30
Hmm, "BobbyDouglas" - i am not really the same opinion cause of the flash vr quality.
All technologies uses jpg-panorama files. Normally there you can change the quality.
The only thing where Java or QTVR is perhaps better, in my opinion, is the distortion or physical deformity of the panorama.
For some people these physical deformity lookes more unreal as real in the inner definition of virtual reality - and they get crazy if they turn around, to fast.
But it is naturally legitim to see it different.
To "d a v e": I don`t like Java applets very much cause of there "bad performance".
If sometimes applets are running on my system the CPU workes with fully 100%.
If i quit the applet there are still 20 till 30 seconds of CPU blocking. So you can`t do anything except to take a coffee or mix a drink ;o)
And the loading and starting time is longer, cause the JVM (Java Virtual Machine) is additional interpreting the Java Code on your system (the jar-File is not compiled). And this code is bigger as the code for Flash VR.
I found some statistics of plugin usage. Most of them are very differently , in reference of there percentaged usage.
On some statistics where Java had only between 20 and 50 percent, but that was in asia and south america.
But all of them have one thing in common: Flash is the most popular plugin.
See one depended ststistic. Think it`s not the newest and not global (only states)
http://www.macromedia.com/software/player_census/flashplayer/
Another problem is maybe that not all users on the net are "freaks" or clever enough to recognize the difference between an useful plugin or an damagingly dialer or virus or spam software.
I believe that internet beginners or people who are only sometimes in the net don`t know really what the popup means if it says: "Would you like to download the xyz-plugin from ...".
Maybe europeans - especially germans are a little bit more conservative:
"I don`t know it - I don`t need it - I don`t download it"
Safety first especially in commercial business.
okay, dispute on it!
Helge
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BobbyDouglas
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 4/6/2004 11:13:09
Could I see some proof? My research shows that all of the flash based ones are VERY poor in quality. But hey, I might be wrong.
Since you know flash is better guality, maybe you can prove it by linking me to the flash movie that shows better quality. Remember, it will need to be able to take a donut file.
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Giomanach
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 4/6/2004 11:21:56
Flash is only good quality for 360 views, if the frames per second rate is HIGH, 20+ per second, automatically making the SWF file larger, NO GOOD.
I also agree to Java Applets being no good, at home, I have Firefix installed, and I don't have any plugins installed for it, and I don't intend to either, so Java Applet wouldn't work for me
I saw a program earlier, and I can't remember for the life of me what it was but it did 360 views, I'll see if I can find it again tonight after work
Dan
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Giomanach
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 4/6/2004 11:29:08
Found it!!
It's a program called Inovision. It uses Flash and Java, allows for Pan and zoom. You might wanna look at it:
http://www.360inovision.com
-or-
http://www.universal360.com
Dan
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Nigel
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 4/6/2004 14:37:08
Sorry I've not been in on this from the start - my forum visits have been intermittent just lately.
I've specialised in providing Virtual Tours since 1999 so I guess I fit into the expert category at least for this subject. I say that tentatively because I'm always learning.
I can advise you on every aspect of systems to consider - one shot versus multiple, Photovista, panotools, ipix - and also viewer types - java, quicktime, Flash, shockwave and other plugins. I've used all these viewers and several different stitchers.
First - I would not recommend a one shot system. In theory they sound great but in practice they have too many drawbacks apart from being expensive. There are many start VR companies who have these sitting on the shelf unused after the first couple of weeks.
Second - ipix charge a fee for every pano you put on the web thorugh keys or through a very expensive annual licence needlessly putting up your costs in what can be a competitive market.
The best and most effective system for real estate is to use a digital camera that takes a fisheye lens. This will allow a much greater field of view and you can choose the number of shots to take (minimum 3 per pano). You will also have the ability to produce spherical panoramas.
You will need a panoramic head for your tripod to set the nodal point of the camera of the type supplied by www.kaidan.com and Manfrotto.
Given your situation and the fact that you intend shooting for realtors then you could do a lot worse than look at www.easypano.com who supply panoweaver. take some time to look at their site - no per pano fees either.
Photovista is also an excellent product.
One of the best best stitchers and viewer is in fact free - panotools created by Prof. Helmut Dersch but it is by no means the easiest to use.
As for viewers I would recommend Java. The majority of machines will load a java pano quickly with no plugin required. This is what most professional VR producers use along with quicktime (when larger, higher resolution full screen panos are required). The java viewers produce high quality viewing and can be customised with your (or your customers logo).
The flash viewers are improving all the time but they are not up to the quality of java based viewers yet and don't dewarp an image. I have samples of all the viewer types if you need to compare.
A useful site to visit is www.panoguide.com but be prepared - theres more information there on this subject than you can take in during one visit.
I hope I'm not too late and you haven't already made the purchase.
Nigel
< Message edited by Nigel -- 4/6/2004 14:41:26 >
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BobbyDouglas
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 4/6/2004 15:27:26
Thanks for the input Nigel. It seemed like the only reason why you would advise to not use the one shot lens, is because of the price.
What if price does not matter... to an extent?
What would be a set back for using it? Specifically the www.0-360.com lens using the Canon G5 Powershot.
What would you suggest then? Someone (one person) plans to go around and take MANY 360 degree shots for their web site. If they were averaging a lot a day, wouldn't the 360 be best?
Of course it will take some time to get used to the 360 shot, however absolutely no stiching will be required. So what set backs can I expect? And how might I correct them?
The flash tour web site Inovision, was rather nice. Until you increased the speed to the normal tours, and then you were able to notice the difference. I think the tours on this site were actually Java, but the navigation was done in flash. Still seemed rather poor in quality, but thanks for the link anyways.
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Eli
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 4/6/2004 17:26:58
Take a look at this:
http://www.360dof.com/360-flash-panorama-viewer.html
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Nigel
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 4/7/2004 4:54:01
My views on one shot systems are only a little to do with price and mostly to do with quality.
You cannot produce the same quality with a one shot system especially indoors which for real estate is a high proportion of what you will be shooting. The images can appear pixelated, lack sharpeness and it is more difficult if not impossibe to cater for rooms with varying light sources (large windows etc).
The Canon G5 is a fine camera and will shoot great panos if used with a proper lens.
For your type of work you can get away with shooting just 3 fisheye shots and batch stitching in panoweaver. Alternatively and for better quality shoot 6-8 with a wide lens and stitch in Photovista. You can shoot a room in a few minutes afer you've setup and stitching won't take that long.
You will need to be able to edit your panoramas in phtoshop from time to time, I edit ALL of mine to improve the quality and sharpness.
Here's an example:
www.innerview.co.uk/tour/northoptour.htm
and here's one that's not completely spherical (6 shots only)
www.innerview.co.uk/cathybehan/hopecottage.htm
Both in java viewer. This is a customised viewer which I believe is an important option to have.
Nigel
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BobbyDouglas
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 4/7/2004 15:48:09
Nigel
- It sounds to me like you have a very generalized opinion on the one shot lens. I am sure there are a few that are rather poor. But what about the www.0-360.com lens?
I have seen and compared the tours, and it looks like the 0-360 ones are very nice. What is your opinion on them?
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helge
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 4/8/2004 7:27:36
I have now a general question!
What is in your opinion the definition of the appellation "virtual tour"???
If you are standing in a foreign city and you wanna sightseeing around,
you normally have a pocket map and a brochure with some informations about several points on the map.
You can turn around your head and have a look in all directions.
At every time you have a general overview where you go.
If you see some interesting things you can have a look in your brochure what it`s about.
...
I expect these things, in which kind ever, also of a Virtual Tour!!!
So the most virtual tours are only linked 360° views with some navigation hotspots - that`s all.
This is not my understanding of a virtual tour!
But the problem is, you can`t do something more if you use these QTVR or Java Software Tools.
They don`t have the possibility more to accomplish.
I try to develop a flash tour i would prefer.
Helge
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helge
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 4/8/2004 8:00:30
to Nigel
Why you declare that Flash can`t warp an image?
Flash is an tool where you can develop all things you want.
But you have to program it!
So here is an example for you that shows an flash warped panorama.
warped 360° Flash VR example
You only have to split the panorama into several slices and strech them.
Helge
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