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IgotDreams
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 6/1/2004 14:30:51
There is something fishy about jeffrough's virtual tour located here;
http://barclayvilla.com/tour/360.htm
If this was taken with the scandalous 0-360 lens, why are there seams in your photos? Please refer to these shots for reference;
Ballroom: seam up the stairs, look on the base and follow it up
Ballroom Stairs: rightside of the plant on the right next to huge window.
Bedroom 1: down the middle of the armoir
English Garden: look to the sky
Gazeebo-view 1: this one is obvious
Swimming pool: sky
all the photos seem to have them, I just picked out a few obvious ones. The qaulity of the shots are consitent with the shots I have shot with the 0-360 lens. Bad qaulity. But the seams do not make sense, unless you are a terrible photoshop user. I have seen some people take pieces of a room and patch up areas, but that does not look like the case here. Did you overlap other shots?
My entire point, is with a oneshot lens system, do we need to do this much work, if it was as smart at the technology that it pertrays? Even if we do all this patch work, the qaulity of the 0-360 lens has been my number one issue, because there is nothing more in this world, but for this oneshot system to work in just ONE SHOT!
I did not mean to bash (except 0-360, ha ha) or call out anyone, just trying to understand how your virtual tours came to be, Jeffrough.
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JohnBoy
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 6/3/2004 13:38:13
I`ll quote:
or call out anyone, just trying to understand how your virtual tours came to be, Jeffrough. tell you what he has done!
he has adjusted his photos onece he has already unwrapped them - why not adjust them as needed in the donut stage? because he is new!
A crappy filter does the 0-360 a great injustice.
I think it is good for what it is designed to do! Quick panos. It isn`t going to win awards and jeffroughs certainly wont!
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Nigel
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 6/4/2004 17:53:17
That propertypanorama thing is just a wide angle pic thats pans side to side in a flash window. Also takes ages to load.
Its not even good quality based on the samples.
The barclayvilla sample of the ballroom reminds me of a scene from a ghost movie. Look at the top of the stairs. Seriously though the windows and lights are way overexposed.
Nigel
< Message edited by Nigel -- 6/4/2004 17:58:13 >
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JohnBoy
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 6/5/2004 5:03:20
from what you just said Nigel. I see you have tunnel vision about this. I know it isn`t very good - But it isn`t a picture that goes back and forth. Maybe your eyes need adjusting and therefore your are not an expert in this after all!
honestly - nothing will change your mind - your set in your ways - so why even look at this forum in the first place!
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Nigel
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 6/5/2004 10:53:56
JohnBoy,
First let me say - don't get personal - it does you no credit.
Onto your comments - you couldn't be further from the truth. The example I looked at was a partial panorama that panned only from side to side. Maybe there are others on the site that do more - I didn't see them. I tried to check again today just to make sure I wasn't missing anything but I can't get the site to load at all now.
My comment was an observation only and I'm certainly not set in my ways. Those in this industry who know me also know that I'm the first to test out new techniques and new viewers. If there is a way to improve the finished result I'm all for it. The example at propertypanorama is functional but thats all. There are new flash viewers being developed all the time and the latest crop are much better than this one. I will be more than happy to use a flash viewer as soon as I'm happy with the quality.
Someone buying a virtual tour usually doesn't know the difference between a good one and a poor one - to them its a 'virtual tour'. Poor work can result in a poor opinion of virtual tours in general. That's why I don't rate one-shot systems or 2 shot systems for that matter but thats only part of the picture.
I don't make offensive comments - I make constructive ones based on what I see and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I've spent many hours over the last few years helping people with their tours. I can't say they look fantastic if they don't but I will offer suggestions as to how to improve them.
The forum is here so we can exchange information and opinions and help each other. The fact that you disagree with me is a bit of an odd reason to question why I visit.
Nigel
< Message edited by Nigel -- 6/5/2004 11:21:54 >
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JohnBoy
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 6/5/2004 11:39:20
quote:
propertypanorama Thankyou for your critical comments. Nigel. I`m sure we are all after the same thing in the end. A good quality pano that works on 100% of computers and doesn`t take 2 hours to stitch.
Sorry wasn`t trying to be personal - a little light banter!
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Nigel
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 6/5/2004 14:16:38
Ok fair enough! No offence taken.
Nigel
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360texas
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 6/12/2004 15:08:57
Hi folks, yes that spherical flash approach looks rather good.. it does put the sphere in "Sphere".
Having produced virtual tours since 1998, I am the forum moderator for 4 photographic/ software forums, I agree with Nigel. Regarding the 1-shot lens, I have tried one without purchasing it... you only get about a 90 degree vertical field of view [horizontal down to the nadir] To get any of the room.. you almost have to hang the lens gear on the ceiling or your target object has to be 20 feet away to be in view. Very impractical.
On this page http://360texas.com/hotel/2004/index.htm you may click and see both Flash and java flavor of the same image. While the flash version is only a scroller .. it does have a rather smooth rotation. The flash zoom in/out functionality is similar to the java version.
Dave
< Message edited by BobbyDouglas -- 5/11/2006 14:15:35 >
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360texas
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 6/15/2004 20:07:57
hmm since I did not understand ellipisces cryptic reply.. I will have to rely on BobbyDouglas equally cryptic comment for clarification.
Is there something I am missing here?? Please advise.
Dave
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ellipisces
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 6/16/2004 3:45:12
hey tex sorry, sometimes it's easy to believe that everybody is a techno freak (like me). This, OMG, is an abbreviation or acronym. It stands for Oh My God. These types of acronyms became popular on the internet, because they decrease the amount of typing necessary, but they assume that everybody knows "internet speak". They really took off as cells phones became popular, because typing the alphabet on only 10 keys is difficult. Now days, there is almost an entire new language which is devoted to the minimum amount of keystrokes necessary to send a message.
 Then when I said that "to create pans (panorama's) and not take hours to do it", I was referring to a post by Shirley, very early on in this topic, where she posed the solution for panoramic photography as a product called "MGI Photovista", which I use, and have used for years. To offset that, I shoot on film still. I do use digital for other solutions, but I shoot on 35 mm if I want the absolute best shots to start with. Photovista does a great job of lining everything up and then you have your choice of output options. The 360 panorama needs to be hosted on a server with an addition added to it's setup. It's not very hard to do and works great! sometimes it easier to learn one thing well, than to try to learn them all.
When I said "plus I got 100", I meant that I made the 100th reply to this topic. Just thought that might be kinda cool.
 . . .
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deadbird
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 6/21/2004 14:07:41
So what exactly would be the perfect flash viewer in your eyes?
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Walt
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 6/22/2004 13:46:29
Visit my new site Interactive map of Porec and comment.
I'm a newbie with just 2 years of flash experience. The site is concepted as tour of Porec coast (Istria - Croatia) with on line reservation of accomodation. The site isn't finished. We have over 150 panos on, and about 100 panos ready to process.
The photograph is still shooting everyday. The photos are taken with Kaidan one shot 360. Only few, the oldest photos, are taken with stiching 24 photos. I got to put on some preloaders and some random action to shuffle private accomodation list.
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rebatyh
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 6/23/2004 22:14:24
I have been in the virtual tours business fro many years. After many trials on one shoot solutions and paying much to ipix, I stay on s/w from http://www.easypano.com for several years and I think their products have many advantages.
1. Their product (Panoweaver, a panorama stitching software and Tourweaver, a feature-rich virtual tour software) are all very easy-to-use. I am able to create a panorama even in less than 1 minute. That is very important for me since I have many panoramas to stitch every day. I also used their batch stitching software which will stitch panorama fully automaticlly.
2. It is cost effective. Unlike ipix, you have to pay them key fee or annual fee, Just one time money is necessary for their product.
3. Professioan virtual tour. You can get full spherical (360*180) instead cylindrical panorama. Moreover, you can get more professional vritual tours with interactive map, guided tour. Look at their gallery at http://www.easypano.com/gallery_tw.html. Just terrific.
< Message edited by rebatyh -- 6/23/2004 22:20:07 >
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360texas
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 6/25/2004 11:45:27
Ah.. just saw that someone here visited my website. Thank you.
ellipisces, Now I understand your comment about '100'
Yes I know about PhotoVista and Easypano Panoweaver. I am the Forum Moderator for both of these software products. I agree with the performance comments for both products.
dave@ 360texas.com
< Message edited by BobbyDouglas -- 5/11/2006 14:15:06 >
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Pete Baker
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 6/28/2004 6:58:28
Hi,
I have seen flash viewers that can handle the correction of cylindrical images, but not spherical images. The cylindrical photos look pretty good in the flash viewer, but not quite as good as java yet.
(eg http://www.flashvr.de/preview)
As the macromedia flash player gets more efficient in terms of its internal workings (registers/memory usage), I see viewers like this getting the high quality panning abilities of the java ones.
Has anybody seen a flash viewer that can handle the maths behing displaying a spherical photo?
Thanks, Pete
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helge
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From: Germany
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 7/6/2004 9:02:42
Hi there,
what does Pete means with the efficient of memory usage in Flash Files?
It depends!
You can reduce the quality of the Pano.pics and so you get a smaler file and a lower memory usage.
Pano.Files in my VR Systems have a size of 40-60kb. I think that`s good for the Net.
The same thing is with the workload of the CPU. Do i use my Flash VR System (www.finestvr.de/virtworld/index.html) i get 30-40% CPU workload.
Do i use Applets like easypano i get a 70-90% workload and at the loading session till 100%!
Guys, that`s high!
In my opinion it is more important to give usable and quick informations to the users.
Than they get a better feeling and imagination of that area you represent.
To get a good useability of you Pano-Tour you need definitely a map, some possibility for navigation and an inviting design.
For me it doesn`t really matter if someone uses cylindrical or spherical images, as an user i need a good useability to represent a good overview
of the main facts.
Another fact why i use Flash 5 or 6 for multimedia VRs is standing here: www.macromedia.com/software/player_census/flashplayer/version_penetration.html
The penetration of the Java Applet usage is, because of the missing JVM in the IE6, many % lower.
The e-frogg System is not bad, but i miss sone informations about the hotspots and the Nav.Points on the map.
And you get a problem if you are zooming to deep. I think it is not the beta version.
so long.
Helge
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teq4
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 7/6/2004 10:37:42
hello helge,
we are still developping the e-frogg's VR technology. So, if you have any comment, they are welcome !
what kind of problem do you have by zooming too deep ? and which panorama ?
abuot the hotspots, what information miss you ?
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helge
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 7/6/2004 11:16:37
4 teq4,
i was on the "La Ciotat 360" VR, push the +-zooming button maybe 4seconds, then you`ll get a white screen in the VR-window.
If you move your mouse around you`ll see only the jumping nav.balls.
Maybe you forgot to set a maximal scaler variable in your zooming function.
I would prefer a Tooltip, like a dragable mouse over, on the Hotspots that shows the names or the directions to the next pano.
Hope i could help ;o)
Helge
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teq4
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 7/6/2004 11:23:37
thanks helge !
For maximum zoom, in the new version (used in the online generator), maximum zoom should be corrected.
For the tooltips, I already planed to make it ;)
available in the next step !
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jaydrew
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 7/14/2004 13:51:33
does anyone know where i can get a free program to create a virtual tour in flash
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helge
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 10/6/2004 11:50:02
Here are some new sites with Finest VR!
360-rhoen.de
360-fulda.de
These are alpha versions and will grow up the next months.
All both are integrated in our new site fulda-erleben.de.
Hope all works well.
Regards Helge
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Nigel
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 10/13/2004 6:46:53
Wow - it's still going!
Helge - thats a great flash display. This has been achivable with the java viewers for some time now but I agree with you that flash would be the preferred choice.
The only drawback I see at the moment is the dewarping issue which makes the roads and building looked unaturally curved in your examples.
As you say though - it depends on your audience. For a quick download and summary of an area it's ideal.
Nigel
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kristinm
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 11/17/2004 21:59:09
Nigel (and others) without going into too much detail we are prof photographers who've been working in real estate for years - we've recently started shooting digital, although many of our high end clients still prefer med format (Mamiya RZ). For a 40 something film photographer its a steep learning curve! We've bought an entry level SLR (Canon 300D) for learning purposes with the intent of leasing the new Canon when it comes onto the market next year - by that stage I'm guessing our lab will be almost out of business so we'll have to switch over anyway!
In order to compete with all the cheap digital guys undercutting us, I think we may need to offer virtual tours - price is definitely an issue, and they don't seem to care too much about the quality. I've spent hours on the web before stumbling across this thread.
So far I've downloaded trial versions of PTgui and Tourweaver - so far so good. I've cobbled together some things using a series of shots taken by turning in a circle(!!!!) and apart from the dismal shots the stitching and tour thing worked great!
Lenses next - obvioulsy you need that floor-ceiling thing, as well as the width - I'm thinking a fisheye would do the job nicely.. 16mm or 8mm is the question? Turn the camera around? Fire a speedlight off the ceiling to even out the light? I guess you need a 180 degree not a spherical. PTgui flattens it I believe? THere is also a flattening plug in for photoshop on the panotools site, but that stuff is a little advanced for me - I prefer a front end!!!!! So any clues about that one would be great! I'm thinking of just getting a cheap fisheye, as we need to make back the money pretty quickly and as I said the quality is pretty average. Later we can go the whole hog if nec.
Just downloaded a trial version of that other software you recommended which blends the images - we've been having probs with exposure differences in the digital images. With film and multiple flashing it all worked fine - but it seems you can't multiple flash with a digital camera (this one anyway.)????????
Sorry to sound so needy - its just that we can't ask people here as they're all our competitors, they're doing the virtual tours and internet shots and then offering the clients stills at really cheap prices thereby taking our lower end work. Time to fight back!!!!
By the way its my partner that's the photographer - I do all the photoshopping and computer work, but I'm by no means an expert!
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Nigel
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 11/20/2004 7:00:41
Here's a quick summary:
Ptgui - best stitching but takes longer to use. Ptgui doesn't do anything on it's own. It is a GUI frontend for Prof. Helmut Dersch's panotools which is free. You can download both from the ptgui site.
Photovista: very easy to use but best for cylindrical panos (not floor and ceiling)unless you have an older version. Sphericals can be done but the process is more complex. Heres a link to a tutorial I produced for it:
http://www.intour.co.uk/
Panoweaver: easy to use and will produce full sphericals. - 3 shot fisheye system. (tourweaver puts the panoramas together and stitches them but is quite heavy in terms of file size.
Equipment: to get a decent vertical field of view I would recommend either an 8mm fisheye or a 16mm. A lot of virtual tour producers use the Nikon 4500/5000 with the Nikon fisheye lens FE8 - not too expensive. The canon you have is even better and works well with the sigma 8mm fisheye. As photographers you may already have better lenses.
A panoramic head is essential see: www.kaidan.com
Usefull forums: www.iseemedia.com click on photovista then support then forums and register - a lot of useful info there and discussions about using flash. Use the search option to see previous threads.
Yahoogroups/panotools: a bit more technical geared towards panotools and ptgui.
There is also an easypano forum for panoweaver - the links are on their site.
For the record I usually shoot 16mm 6-8 shots around with one up and down like in the intour tutorial. This gives better quality. If I was doing real estate I would probably do 3 shot fisheye (ptgui or panoweaver) or I wouldn't bother with spherical and shoot 16mm 6-8 shots then stitch. The 16mm lens gives a decent vertical fiels of view showing most of the ceiling and floor but not having to patch the up and down shots saves a LOT of time.
Hope this helps
Nigel
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marmitejim
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RE: 360 Degree Tour (Flash Maybe?) - 7/28/2006 10:11:10
This was an absolutely brilliant thread; I really enjoyed reading it and it has helped me loads with my research - thanks for giving us all some of your hard won experience
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Printable Version 
What do people think of this flash software - 
