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really newbie looking for advice

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All Forums >> Web Design >> Site Critiques >> really newbie looking for advice

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Westloch Posts: 2 Joined: 3/28/2004 Status: offline	really newbie looking for advice - 3/28/2004 21:25:26 first off this is my first ever doodling with the web. I am no expert, just playing with a site for me and my friends. I am looking for any good advice whatsoever, I'll take any advice you experts can give. Thank you much. http://www.westloch.com


ellipisces Posts: 849 Joined: 12/14/2003 Status: offline	RE: really newbie looking for advice - 3/29/2004 0:13:37 no criticism, just a technical detail In your photo gallery, you have two of the same pic! Sorry, I know it's a pain _____________________________ one step at a time, just replace 4 bulbs with CFL bulbs http://www.climatecrisis.net/ (in reply to Westloch)


BamseIsUnix Posts: 108 Joined: 2/18/2004 Status: offline	RE: really newbie looking for advice - 3/29/2004 1:40:13 Ok, Westloch... You didn't tell us your site's purpose, so I can't be too critical . I'm at school right now, and I have 2 browsers I can use to test your site with. I suppose you created your site for IE because in Netscape 6.2 it's completely inaccessible (layout messed up). Even in IE 6 I see some extra boxes: they don't look too good. There is a big dark red box at the bottom of the page I think serves no purpose. The bottom of the page is too boring anyway. When I scroll down the page feels like I'm falling into a dark pit . Put something there. You shouldn't use marquee, many people don't like it. You said you're no expert, so I'm not gonna go that much into the technical part... Something about the layout and colors. Don't use so huge spaces between banners. Leave out all the empty space on your page. The links "Contact us" and "Served in the military" are very hard for me to see. Maybe it's my monitor or something. Add more contrast - don't count on the colors, but use dark on light or light on dark. Don't use paragraphs of text as links. You have still underlined all the links - keep them that way! Lose all the link hovers (the ones that make links go bold when mouse goes over them). It affects the layout badly. You shouldn't* use Microsoft Word to build web pages. Please use Frontpage or, if possible, Dreamweaver.* And oh... lose the blendtrans effects. It isn't because they're MSIE only but because they can be quite annoying when you have them on every page. Ask if you have any questions. And be specific so we can help you. Regards, Bamse (in reply to Westloch)


BamseIsUnix Posts: 108 Joined: 2/18/2004 Status: offline	RE: really newbie looking for advice - 3/29/2004 1:43:45 Your site also uses special fonts that aren't visible for most of your viewers. "Mangal" and "Rockwell Extra Bold" for instance. I only see Arial and Times New Roman (this is a typical Windows machine). Regards, Bamse (in reply to Westloch)


jaybee Posts: 14155 Joined: 10/7/2003 From: Berkshire, UK Status: offline	RE: really newbie looking for advice - 3/29/2004 8:02:32 quote: You shouldn't use Microsoft Word to build web pages. Please use Frontpage or, if possible, Dreamweaver. and if he doesn't have access to, or can't afford to buy FP or Dreamweaver????? Not everyone has the full toolkit Bamse....... and Oh Boy! You do like getting yourself into strife on here don't you. Coooeeee, GORILLY old chap, kindly stop hand coding and use FP or Dreamweaver immediately!!! Westloch for a first attempt it's not bad. You need to watch out for the text colours being too close to the background colour. One in 10 males have some form of colour blindness and won't see half your site. Blue on red and the red on red on your home page was difficult for me to read and my sight is fine. As Bamse correctly says you need to pay attention to the layout at the bottom of the page too. Surprisingly enough, even though it's off the page, people might actually scroll down for a look. < Message edited by jaybee -- 3/29/2004 13:09:50 > _____________________________ If it ain't broke..... fix it until it is. GAWDS Now where did I put that Doctype? (in reply to BamseIsUnix)


gorilla Posts: 2974 From: Denmark Status: offline	RE: really newbie looking for advice - 3/29/2004 12:38:37 Not bad for a first effort although it has to be said straight away that you have made pretty well all the "beginners mistakes." The thing to remember is that each image/special effect/sound and so on will take up bandwidth. In other words the more of them you have the longer it will take for your page to be "built" on the screen. So you have to make a tradeoff their. I personally hate it when music suddenly starts playing uninvited but it could be that your target group will like it. You're better IMO to make that type of thing a link for them them to click. Bamses comments about the transitions is good - i'd lose them. Same is true of the fonts. same is true of jaybee's points about colour. This is a good place to go to pick sets of colours that go with each other: http://www.colorschemer.com/online.html ALL your pages should have the same navigation. With the possible exception of the forum. Yiou're using a table to layout - nothing wrong with that although you could learn to do it using css and get the beneftis of that. Whichever way you do it make the thing fill the whole screen and use percentages. That way it will resize itself automatically to your visitors' screens. Navigation. That damned frontpage rollover component. You've actually done it well but don't use those rollovers - they are very buggy java code and crash youer visitors' browsers at random. Not want you want! If ever there was a menu structure crying out for css your one is it. Your pages will i think get quite long. As it happens I'm doing as a freeby a site for a FRG. (In fact its finished and I wish they'd get back to me with content PDQ.) Their pages also are going to get quite long so at the top of each page the menu has a way of jumping to the main sections of each page. (See screenshot) I think that is something you could usefully do. If you're taking in text from word or any word processing program go up to the edit menu and select paste special. The paste menu will appear select normal paragraph. That way you lose the "funnies" associated with importing. see screenshot 2 Spend a bit of time in the outfront tutorials section they're very good and will save you a lot of effort. I would encourage you to learn css and a bit of html you don't have anything to unlearn and a small amount of brainsweat now will make it easier to really make your site sparkle. I'm not going to rise to Jaybee's comment about handcoding except to say that all software is a tool for doing the job. As you develop expertise you'll learn which tool is right for which job. You'll find the beginners and css forums very helpful. Thumbnail Image Good luck. PS: and before anybody asks - Yes it is a pure css layout Attachment (1) < Message edited by gorilla -- 3/29/2004 12:53:20 > _____________________________ Mh�ircaish Signature self-censored to protect the sensibilities of the thin-skinned . May we never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion. � Dwight D. Eisenhower (in reply to jaybee)


gorilla Posts: 2974 From: Denmark Status: offline	RE: really newbie looking for advice - 3/29/2004 12:40:24 Screenshot 2 Thumbnail Image Sheesh I'd forget my own furry head if it weren't screwed on. Welcome to Outfront. You may find that there's quite a few serving/former/ or family of service people here. In fact one of the moderators has a son in the corp at the moment. Another has a daughter in the navy (you know those guys who wear blue and who only exist to get you jarheads to where the excitement is ) Attachment (1) < Message edited by gorilla -- 3/29/2004 12:50:18 > _____________________________ Mh�ircaish Signature self-censored to protect the sensibilities of the thin-skinned . May we never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion. � Dwight D. Eisenhower (in reply to gorilla)


tarheel Posts: 422 From: Fresno CA USA Status: offline	RE: really newbie looking for advice - 3/29/2004 13:26:25 All these critiques are good advice, but I just think it's fine for a first-ever effort. Good job for a first time! Phil _____________________________ Phil Hawkins Photographyhttp://www.philhawkinsphoto.com (in reply to Westloch)


LoriL1212 Posts: 394 Joined: 1/30/2004 From: South Florida Status: offline	RE: really newbie looking for advice - 3/29/2004 22:18:19 I too think that you have done better than many with your "first time ever doodling with the web" - props for your effort. I have nothing to add past what has been mentioned about the bottom area. Keep up the good work! _____________________________ Lori Leach :: zenful creations :: kudos :: musings (in reply to tarheel)


BamseIsUnix Posts: 108 Joined: 2/18/2004 Status: offline	RE: really newbie looking for advice - 3/30/2004 6:49:42 quote: quote: You shouldn't use Microsoft Word to build web pages. Please use Frontpage or, if possible, Dreamweaver. and if he doesn't have access to, or can't afford to buy FP or Dreamweaver????? Not everyone has the full toolkit Bamse....... and Oh Boy! You do like getting yourself into strife on here don't you. Coooeeee, GORILLY old chap, kindly stop hand coding and use FP or Dreamweaver immediately!!! ??? I don't have Frontpage or Dreamweaver either. I don't want them. I use Free Software. I guess it's easier to use some HTML editor, jaybee, rather than do it by hand. Westloch said he is a real newbie, afterall. I'm not quite sure what you meant by that. Get into strife? Regards, Bamse (in reply to LoriL1212)


Giomanach Posts: 6090 Joined: 11/19/2003 From: England Status: offline	RE: really newbie looking for advice - 3/30/2004 6:56:59 Bamse Jaybee only offers advice, and personal opinions. I for one agree with her on the use FP or DW (DW DW DW DW). Using MS Word for it will add reams and reams of excess coding in both CSS and HTML, but what if you can't afford FP/DW and don't know of the other Web Autoring programs out there? Using the free editors is fine, but some of them are limited in features. I personally uise Notepad and DW, one because they are the easiest for me to use, and two, neither produces mandatory coding. Westloch - The best advice anyone can give you is: Use whatever you find easiest to use, but make sure it is design for Web Pages (FP/DW/FirstPage/Notepad/Notetab) No-one can tell you that you must use a certain program to get professional pages. I mainly use notepad, and I achieve the same results as some people who use FP/DW. The choice is yours Dan < Message edited by Giomanach -- 3/30/2004 12:32:10 > _____________________________ (in reply to BamseIsUnix)


jaybee Posts: 14155 Joined: 10/7/2003 From: Berkshire, UK Status: offline	RE: really newbie looking for advice - 3/30/2004 7:42:14 It was the way you worded it Bamse. It came across as - use Frontpage or Dreamweaver and nothing else. I believe you should use whatever you're comfortable with. Word and it's cohorts do a good job with setting up a page, newbies are most likely completely unaware of the rubbish that's getting plugged in behind but they'll learn. As they advance, they go to change some HTML and get a nice surprise. I would never advise anyone to start web site design using Word but Microsoft have other ideas and it does work. Messy, difficult to maintain but it works. Here at college we teach our students to code using notepad. They don't get near a WYSIWYG editor until they've passed term grades in HTML. Dan. I notice you've changed dear. Are we trying to go incognito? _____________________________ If it ain't broke..... fix it until it is. GAWDS Now where did I put that Doctype? (in reply to Giomanach)


Giomanach Posts: 6090 Joined: 11/19/2003 From: England Status: offline	RE: really newbie looking for advice - 3/30/2004 7:44:49 quote: Dan. I notice you've changed dear. Are we trying to go incognito? Nah missus, just got bored with the old me, it looks more like me anyway, like the back of a bus < Message edited by Giomanach -- 3/30/2004 12:45:10 > _____________________________ (in reply to jaybee)


Westloch Posts: 2 Joined: 3/28/2004 Status: offline	RE: really newbie looking for advice - 3/30/2004 19:21:57 Wow, thanks for the advice. This is my very first attempt so I expected a lot of mistakes. I will keep working on it and try to learn a bit more. I just wanted to say thanks for the help. (in reply to Westloch)


BamseIsUnix Posts: 108 Joined: 2/18/2004 Status: offline	RE: really newbie looking for advice - 4/1/2004 7:37:48 quote: It was the way you worded it Bamse. It came across as - use Frontpage or Dreamweaver and nothing else. I believe you should use whatever you're comfortable with. Word and it's cohorts do a good job with setting up a page, newbies are most likely completely unaware of the rubbish that's getting plugged in behind but they'll learn. As they advance, they go to change some HTML and get a nice surprise. Use whatever you want, yep. I don't use any (X)HTML editor right now. I handcode with Vim (got nice colorful syntax highlighting in it ). http://www.vim.org/ This is my last post on Outfront for a few months now. Will get back to this web design thingie on summer (maybe), have a big website project then. Take care. Regards, Bamse (in reply to jaybee)

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