CSS frames? (Full Version)

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Guest -> CSS frames? (4/1/2004 10:20:17)

While validating my index.htm file I always get error messages about using frameborder, border or framespacing. I was wondering why? What should I be using. The following is the source & the errors reported. I posted this in the CSS category because someone told me:

"You need to use CSS for the style directives. Once you use CSS to set classes etc. you won't get those errors...." ~ Someone

What is he talking about?

--------errors----------

... frameset cols="22,78" border="0 framespacing="0">

^Error: there is no attribute BORDER for this element (in this HTML version)

Error: there is no attribute FRAMESPACING for this element (in this HTML version)

---------index.htm source abridged-------------------

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd"

<html lang="en">
<head></head>
<frameset cols="22,78" border="0 framespacing="0">
<frame src="me.htm" name="Menu" noresize>
<frame src="ne.htm" name="Content">
</frameset>
</html>



Giomanach -> RE: CSS frames? (4/1/2004 10:29:53)

quote:

"You need to use CSS for the style directives. Once you use CSS to set classes etc. you won't get those errors...." ~ Someone

What is he talking about?

He's right, but he's not talking about Frames, he's talking about the content within the pages.

With the frames, you missed a quotation mark:

<frameset cols="22,78" border="0" framespacing="0">

You can use CSS to configure the borders etc:

frame{
border: 0px;
}

M wil soon start shouting if I'm wrong

BTW Welcome to Outfront

Dan



Guest -> RE: CSS frames? (4/1/2004 11:24:33)

The idea is interesting, setting:

frame{
border: 0px;
}

The only problem is that according to TopStyle Pro this doesn't exist. Sure the border option does but not the frame. I did try this and it didn't do anything. Basically the only option that worked was border-style. So what is the real solution to removing the frameborder?

A little about my .htm files. They all link to an external .css file, so all I did was add the above to that. I also linked the index.htm to it temporarily to test the thing. That didn't work. I'm not sure what the deal is with CSS & frames.



c1sissy -> RE: CSS frames? (4/1/2004 11:33:56)

Hi Sderenzi, Welcome to the family!

did you try doing a google on this one? I'm not familar with frames myself. I'm actually not a fan of them.[;)]

I'll see what I can find out for you in the mean time.



caz -> RE: CSS frames? (4/1/2004 12:47:41)

Elizabeth Castro's book: HTML for the world wide web: with XHTML and CSS. 5th ed,2003. has a whole chapter devoted to frames, although she does say that the W3C "discourages the use of frames".

Her website may be of some help

http://www.cookwood.com/html5ed/examples/#c15

I don't use them either - but best of luck.

Carol



Guest -> RE: CSS frames? (4/1/2004 13:24:26)

Wow! I am not an expert on HTML or anything but yall sound kinda silly. For instance:

Of course I searched the internet for info. on this topic. I would not have wasted time posting it unless I needed someone to answer it. What I'm dealing with here is an HTML Validator telling me not to use the attribues, frameborder, border or framespacing in my index.htm. I'm using CSS but don't have any within my index.htm. It seems the issue must be related to my DOCTYPE declaration but I have the right one. Say I do add the above lines to my index.htm the border goes away just like it should, but this is all about finding the right way to do it. I hate google, I use teoma.com to search the net. I found so much material on HTML frames, but this seems to be something not mentioned. Certainly the advice about setting the frameborder using CSS sounds right, but it didn't work. Whatever the reason :-)~

A book won't do any good either because this is so specific to my source it'd be useless. How do you think I even began making my website anyhow? Through Dynamic HTML & CSS by Dave Taylor. Then other materials. So any real advice?



Donkey -> RE: CSS frames? (4/1/2004 13:46:10)

quote:

So any real advice?
Learn some manners>



c1sissy -> RE: CSS frames? (4/1/2004 13:56:50)

quote:

With the frames, you missed a quotation mark:

<frameset cols="22,78" border="0" framespacing="0">


As Dan so kindly pointed out you are missing a quotation mark. as he shows you in the above quote. Have you tried to fix this?

Believe it or not, something missing like a quote will make your validation not come out as you wish it to. IT will show an error. And if you look at your validation that you have shown us in your first post, it shows that the quotation is missing from the code.

So at this point, the error is telling you that you are incorrect with what you have.
quote:

border="0
quote:

^Error: there is no attribute BORDER for this element (in this HTML version)


At this point, until you try the fix offered, I think that valid information has been offered to you[;)]



Guest -> RE: CSS frames? (4/1/2004 14:44:30)

Forgive me for smiling at the previous comment about adding a quotation mark. You need to understand any real validator for HTML would naturally have told me about the error, and so then you should assume logically that it was a mistake in the posting and not the actual source file. TidyGUI tells you if a tag like that missing, and let's not forget the index.htm is so small it isn't even a question of not noticing the missing quotation. It wouldn't matter anyway because I can't use those attributes according to the validator. That means they aren't even in my index.htm now. And as I said adding them makes it simply say they aren't valid attributes.

The point of the matter is this gets sillier by the minute because I haven't the slightest idea of how to correctly implement the option I'd like. Rest assured I did however notice the missing quotation.



d a v e -> RE: CSS frames? (4/1/2004 14:52:12)

also if you'd clicked on the 'explain' link in the validator report you would have seen that border and frame spacing aren't supported in html 4.01
you could try making a class {border:0;) and apply that to the frameset

you could also try being more polite as well, forum users give up their time to try and help people, but we don't owe you anything

also you might consider not using frames as they are fraught with problems, but if you choose to then try the above, obviously you'll need to remove the offending attributes (frame spacing and border) you might also need to set the margins to zero in the body styles of each html doc in the frameset



c1sissy -> RE: CSS frames? (4/1/2004 15:04:46)

quote:

You need to understand any real validator for HTML would naturally have told me about the error


Might I ask you which real validator you are using?

As far as I know the only one that is considered worth its weight in gold is the following
http://validator.w3.org/

Also for your information, I have had pages that have had quotation marks missing and that was the problem.

See it is a matter of crossing the t's and dotting the i's. You still need to make it understandable. [;)]

You might consider using the xhtml transitional dtd for the frameset.

And please, be kind and considerate while you are answering in here.

See here in the css forum our discussions have been that of learning together from whatever mistakes or errors we have in our code. And even though we might not know the answers, we do try to find them for people. If we don't know the answer, we try to find it for someone who asks.

Dave, thank you for your response. I did search for information on css and frames, but really didn't find too much on this. And have not had time to look through any of my books on this subject. Your answer is greatly appreciated[;)]



jaybee -> RE: CSS frames? (4/1/2004 15:36:37)

As you said in your last post...... you don't have the slightest idea. If you want the people on here to help you then I suggest you stop being such a smart alec and putting everyone's backs up.

If you don't think much of the advice on here then I suggest you go here

These people are the absolute experts... they wrote the standards.



Guest -> RE: CSS frames? (4/1/2004 18:30:52)

The HTML Validators I am using are:

TidyGUI
CSE HTML Validator Retail
http://www.htmlhelp.com/tools/

As for the suggestions I am pleased with the link to http://www.w3schools.com/

Also d a v e there wasn't actually an explain option with any of the validators I was using. Naturally had there been I would've totally clicked and checked it out. As for the "you would have seen that border and frame spacing aren't supported in html 4.01
you could try making a class {border:0;) and apply that to the frameset". Thats essentially what I tried at the advice of Giomanach. border-style had an effect but the border attribute had none :-(

Hope this clears thing up a bit. I did figureout that HTML 4.01 didn't support the attributes but was hoping someone might suggest another method. There is one question I have now:

If I changed the HTML version from 4.01 to a lower one even though my .htm files in the frameset are 4.01 would this effect my site in any major way?



Guest -> RE: CSS frames? (4/1/2004 18:46:40)

Hi there everyone. I realized my question had turned into an HTML one rather than a CSS specific one. I therefore ask anyone interested in replying to visit the HTML category & seek out my revised question.

PS Thanks all for helping in whatever way you could, I shall endevour to invite you out for tea or a smoothie :-))



c1sissy -> RE: CSS frames? (4/1/2004 18:59:09)

quote:

PS Thanks all for helping in whatever way you could, I shall endevour to invite you out for tea or a smoothie :-))


MMMMM smoothies!

Watch out, spidy is rushing on her way for this one![:D][8D][;)]



Giomanach -> RE: CSS frames? (4/2/2004 2:46:45)

Smoothies - Better make mine an XXXL[:D]

I've given my fool-proof frames in t'other thread

Dan



gorilla -> RE: CSS frames? (4/2/2004 13:22:44)

No Giomanach Mhaircaish won't start shouting because, a few days early, he is now far far away and has rather more pressing things to worry about than here.

To answer the question what none of you seem to have picked upon is that a frameset is just that a set of pages so to do this you need to do two things:

In the parent document:

frame {
border: none;
}

In the "child" documents:

html, body {
border: none;
}

Will do it. I know it will do it because on an intranet reference set that I run thats how Mhaircaish set it up for me.

sderenzi - use the w3c validators. They do have an explain function they also are the only "official" ones. W3C set the standards why pay money to rely on somebody else's interpretation of the standards.

TTFN

Fiachra

Now if only I can find my little black book with all MY passwords in it [8|]



d a v e -> RE: CSS frames? (4/2/2004 13:43:44)

do i get half a point for
quote:

you could try making a class {border:0;) and apply that to the frameset



fiachra -> RE: CSS frames? (4/2/2004 14:20:03)

Found it. Of course I never thought to look where it should be .... [8|][8|] ... OK as the head gorilla is away I'll be generous on his behalf. Two honey coated dried banana chips are now yours.



c1sissy -> RE: CSS frames? (4/2/2004 14:59:34)

quote:

frame {
border: none;
}


OOOOO OOOOO OOO
In a private email I DID get this right!

Hi fiachra, good to see you in here. Ihope that all is well with you.

Hey Dave, yoooo daaavvvee, you need to share those banana treats with me, well after I get my pc fixed that is[&o]



d a v e -> RE: CSS frames? (4/3/2004 3:25:30)

maybe they will have gone of by the time you get your pc fixed - maybe it's safer if i just eat them when they arrive ;)



fiachra -> RE: CSS frames? (4/3/2004 5:09:06)

Sorry, I polished them off with my coffee , just got a bit peckish ..... [sm=lol.gif]



d a v e -> RE: CSS frames? (4/3/2004 5:19:19)

ahhh



c1sissy -> RE: CSS frames? (4/3/2004 9:40:25)

[:(][:(]

We need to teach you how to SHARE![:D][;)]

Hey Dave, sniffle, computer is still crashing.[:(][:(]



d a v e -> RE: CSS frames? (4/3/2004 10:11:50)

well if i had some banana chips i would send you them all!

my computer crashes all the time, but i'm having it rebuilt soonish. It's a cyrix 333, 128 ram 20gb hardrive - i don't know how i get any thing done in dreamweaver and fireworks! still at least my firefox / moz /netcape work ;)

hope you get it sorted soon I know how frutrating it is. The other day i was using a programme written in java and had to reboot 8 times before it would work :(
it certainly puts a strain on my relationship with my girlfriend! she's caved in and said that i could upgrade/rebuild after i said i wouldn't do any more work otherwise...

btw have you checked your pc for stray banana chips/pizza/insects!



c1sissy -> RE: CSS frames? (4/3/2004 11:50:59)

quote:

btw have you checked your pc for stray banana chips/pizza/insects!

ROFLOL!
Now there is a thought!



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