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CityTownInfo
Posts: 15
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From: Columbus, GA, USA
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CityTown.info For Evaluation - 4/4/2004 20:07:48
All right go ahead and give me the ups and downs for www.CityTown.info . A directory of official, city & town, government & chamber of commerce, websites.
The City Town Forum is a "phpBB" freebee found at www.phpBB.com. It fits easily with my hosting company's service 1&1
< Message edited by CityTownInfo -- 4/4/2004 20:16:50 >
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CityTownInfo
Posts: 15
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From: Columbus, GA, USA
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RE: CityTown.info For Evaluation - 4/7/2004 17:51:46
I have changed the bottom navigation from a frontpage generated component to a hand coded set of links. I have noticed that Netscape browser gives funny results for long bottom frontpage navigation components. It does not want to wrap the navigation and appears to generate a very very wide page. Looks ugly. I do not know if that is a bug, just the way it is or if I have some Frontpage settings incorrect.
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Peppergal
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RE: CityTown.info For Evaluation - 4/18/2004 0:26:08
Why the sad /frustrated faces for superior browsers? ;-)
They're the ones more correct and compliant than IE...they adhere to common standards, whereas IE makes up its own rules.
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Northeast PA / Poconos/ Lake Wallenpaupack Real Estate
wallenpaupacklakeproperty.com
Karen's Real Estate Blog
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CityTownInfo
Posts: 15
Joined: 4/4/2004
From: Columbus, GA, USA
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Serenity Prayer - 4/18/2004 0:31:11
Reply to Peppergal
God grant me the serenity
To accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.
IE is the STANDARD for the web. The other browsers should fall in line.
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Peppergal
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RE: Serenity Prayer - 4/18/2004 0:35:44
Noooo, sorry. IE is the "popular by default" for the web. The standards are set forth by http://www.w3c.org and IE should fall in line with THEM.
IE is popular and common only because most of your average Joes have no idea that there is a better browser out there...thanks to the marketing prowess of Mr Gates.
BTW, the site is very nice, and I like it. I found several of my local , small town Hicksville chambers on there.
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Northeast PA / Poconos/ Lake Wallenpaupack Real Estate
wallenpaupacklakeproperty.com
Karen's Real Estate Blog
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d a v e
Posts: 4071
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: England (but live in Finland now)
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RE: Common Law, Democracy, Precedent, Availability, ... - 4/18/2004 5:58:30
to use your driving metaphor - the web standards are made by the W3c and they are the rules of the road. IE is like a driver who makes up their own rules (say like driving over the limit on the motorway) and because more people do it than not, then it's 'ok'. ok that is until there's a huge pile-up and all the speeding motorists are killed :(
if explorer was anything like standards compliant (say more like netscape7+(?), mozilla, firefox, opera) then the average joe might be paying a bit less for their web development because designers and developers could write their valid pages and reasonably expect them to be rendered properly by all browsers. as it is we have to hack our way through the proprietory interpretations of IE, testing and tweaking until the page can still be called valid and display ok in IE.
coupled with the fact that the explorer is no longer supported on the mac, and there's no way i'm upgrading my win os to use the next version of explorer then the small but growing percentage of people using 'alternative' browsers is will grow even more. If you remember at one time netscape held the dominant market share, and we saw what happened to that. beware IE.
quote:
IE is the STANDARD for the web. The other browsers should fall in line
you should be ashamed of yourself. i hope you don't consider yourself a professional web designer, i certainly wouldn't
what about other user agents? web tv, wap, users that require screen readers, users of pocket devices?? all those are much better served by standards compliant code, not some IE targeted code soup.
the web is for all, irrespective of browser.
code to standards, the web standards.
Microsoft is NOT the standards
what are you going to do with all those font tags when the font tag is removed from the html spec? oh but you'll be ok because you'll have a small but loyal following of users viewing with IE 6 or below.
also the majority 'might' win in a democracy but then you just end up with Bush ;)
I hope you can find the wisdom to change the things you can and yo know the difference between true standards and the popularity race.
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David Prescott
Gekko web design
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Peppergal
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RE: Common Law, Democracy, Precedent, Availability, ... - 4/18/2004 6:04:34
Well said, Dave.
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wallenpaupacklakeproperty.com
Karen's Real Estate Blog
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d a v e
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From: England (but live in Finland now)
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RE: Common Law, Democracy, Precedent, Availability, ... - 4/18/2004 8:08:07
p.s. and it's "A directory of official, city & town, government & chamber of commerce, websites." as well, not like it's just someone's personal homepage.
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David Prescott
Gekko web design
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Peppergal
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RE: Common Law, Democracy, Precedent, Availability, ... - 4/18/2004 10:28:06
quote:
If you think that driving on the left side of the road is better than other options you have that right.
LOL, actually, no you don't have that right. You'll get pulled over and ticketed as soon as a cop sees you. You're expected to conform to STANDARDS when it comes to driving.
Bzzzzzzzzzzzzt. Try again.
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Northeast PA / Poconos/ Lake Wallenpaupack Real Estate
wallenpaupacklakeproperty.com
Karen's Real Estate Blog
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Peppergal
Posts: 2204
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RE: Common Law, Democracy, Precedent, Availability, ... - 4/18/2004 10:29:19
quote:
it seems odd that Microsoft are working with W3C to make it more compliant.
are they now? Will the new browser still be free, or will you have to "subscribe" to it? I doubt many people would upgrade then.
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Northeast PA / Poconos/ Lake Wallenpaupack Real Estate
wallenpaupacklakeproperty.com
Karen's Real Estate Blog
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CityTownInfo
Posts: 15
Joined: 4/4/2004
From: Columbus, GA, USA
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RE: Common Law, Democracy, Precedent, Availability, ... - 4/21/2004 5:20:32
quote:
what about other user agents? web tv, wap, users that require screen readers, users of pocket devices?? all those are much better served by standards compliant code, not some IE targeted code soup.
You cannot satisfy everyone all of the time. What about foreign viewers. Do I need to have a buttons on the website like
Press 1 for English
Press 2 for Spanish
to make you people happy
I believe I am serving the internet community better by sticking with IE a browser that is more international than  Firefox  or Mozilla  or Pavarotti oops I mean Opera 
< Message edited by CityTownInfo -- 4/21/2004 5:21:53 >
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d a v e
Posts: 4071
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From: England (but live in Finland now)
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RE: Common Law, Democracy, Precedent, Availability, ... - 4/21/2004 5:36:34
then you are mistaken in your belief ;)
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Gekko web design
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Giomanach
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From: England
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RE: Common Law, Democracy, Precedent, Availability, ... - 4/21/2004 7:46:17
Ummmm, 'scuse me, but a hell of a lot of people are getting bored with IE, and are switching. If you cater for IE only, I doubt you will get the full potential out of the site. Anyway, all the points have been made
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Peppergal
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RE: Common Law, Democracy, Precedent, Availability, ... - 4/21/2004 13:37:26
A professional makes his site as accessible as possible to all potential users, including people with disabilities. One would think that considering the popularity of PDA's and the nature of your site - people on the go could be interested in accessing your site with their PDA, but not if they can't make sense out of it.
Your informational site is one that will appeal to a broad base of visitors. Perhaps not foreign language speaking, but at any rate, you owe it to yourself (for the satisfaction of a job well done) and them to make the site work well in ALL the common browsers. If you code for IE only, it WON'T work in all browsers. If you code for it to work in Mozilla, your chances are very high that it will work in almost all other browsers.
I somehow think though, that an education in accessibility is not what you want or are ready to accept so any further discourse on this is equivalent to pounding the proverbial head on a proverbial brick wall.
Go ahead and code it to work swell in IE only and to he@@ with other browsers. There are thousands and thousands of users who won't be able to make sense out of your site, but screw them, right? And what are you going to do when IE finally gets its act together and comes into W3C compliance and eliminates support for deprecitated tags and commands....uh oh, you'll have to do the whole thing all over again, and had you done it right the first time, you wouldn't have that problem.
<bang><bang><bang>
I was where you are now - when I first started out I hated Netscape and thought that IE was the way of the web and to heck with other browsers. But I took to heart what the good people on this board taught me. You should be thankful for the free education available to you rather than spurn it with sarcasm.
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Northeast PA / Poconos/ Lake Wallenpaupack Real Estate
wallenpaupacklakeproperty.com
Karen's Real Estate Blog
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dgeehot
Posts: 12
Joined: 4/26/2004
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RE: CityTown.info For Evaluation - 4/26/2004 21:46:49
Nice job, very impressive. The only thing that I would add, is some way to either add additional infomation or notification of any additional links or broken links
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