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caz
Posts: 3466
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RE: W3 Validation is a scam - 4/22/2004 11:22:11
quote:
ORIGINAL: Minix
quote:
ORIGINAL: Peppergal
quote:
I'll do it on principle.
And how, pray tell, can you do it if you don't know what the standards are?
Are you telling me that there was no way to accomodate the visually impaired on the internet until somebody wrote the standards?
That's not what is being said here. Before the standards were agreed no one was sure how best to accommodate all users of the web, with all their different requirements. The standards pull together a mass of information to make it easier for designers to do their work, and that includes validation.
CSS and accessiblity standards are tools and anyone who is doing web design would be foolish to ignore the tools of the trade.
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BobbyDouglas
Posts: 5431
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From: Arizona
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RE: W3 Validation is a scam - 4/22/2004 11:22:16
I still don't understand why you think it is a scam... but I will address a few things.
quote:
Explain to me why the internet needs standards that all must adhere - to consider the "disabled" as you call them, bu the rest of the media society does not.
- It needs a standard to help developers code for the better half of the internet. Don't you agree? If you think it is a problem for visually impared folks, why don't you start a company that goes around and instead of writing text on page, you record speech and sell it to these various web sites.
If someone can't see, there is a lot that they are unable to do now, viewing web sites on the internet is one of them.
quote:
Explain to me why every newspaper printed doesn't have standards that allows the visually impaired to have equal access to the content via Braille incorporated into every edition.
- The newspapers would have to print an entire new newspaper. They couldn't have a standard that allows people who can and cant see to read a document. If newspapers thought that this was a serious issue, they would provide news in the form of braille. I myself don't see too many targets for this, and I think it would be a waste of money. But if you really think it is a problem, why don't you do some research on the amount of people who would buy this, and then write a letter to a newspaper? If you can prove your point, they will start doing this.
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Explain to me why every magazine published in the US doesn't have an accepted standard so that the visually impaired can pick up a copy and be assured that the content is Braille friendly.
- Same point above.
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Expalin to me why every restaraunt in America doesn't have to adhere to a standard that every menu that they print is "impaired friendly" so that they can sell to everybody.
- I have to be honest here when I say that I have never seen someone who requires braille in a restaraunt. If everyone required a second napkin in resturants, I am sure they would accomidate this. But spending a lot of money to make menus who those who require braille to read, seems pointless because there are not enough people who would require them.
Also, why doesn't the people who brought the man/women who is unable to read a menu, read it for him or her? That would be the only logical thing to do.
All of my comments are based on experience. I could be wrong, and there could be thousands of blind men and women who go out to eat in normal everyday resturants, but I do not see them.
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Peppergal
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RE: W3 Validation is a scam - 4/22/2004 11:22:55
Well, Minix - you'd be free to download every web browser onto your computer, test each one and try to figure out the bugs yourself, as to why something works in a, b, and d, but not c and e. Or, you can test your pages against the "standards" that almost all browsers save one go by and pretty much guarantee it will work in all those browsers save one...
it's your headache.
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pageoneresults
Posts: 1001
From: Orange, CA USA
Status: offline
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RE: W3 Validation is a scam - 4/22/2004 11:27:28
quote:
Ignored for a long time by many developers, standards such as HTTP, HTML or XML are at the very core of the success of the Web. The current trend of stressing standards compliance on the Web is not due to chance: they are a win-win for all participants.
Developed by experts and with input from the whole Web community, standards work together to provide the foundation to build increasingly powerful applications. Standards are the result of a lot of energy and expertise and are available for free: don't miss the opportunity to benefit from their leveraging effect!
Buy standards compliant Web sites
Don't let Minix pull the wool over your eyes! ;)
< Message edited by pageoneresults -- 4/22/2004 11:27:49 >
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Minix
Posts: 435
Joined: 2/13/2004
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RE: W3 Validation is a scam - 4/22/2004 11:38:25
This isn't about standards. It's about the W3 validation process.
Standards are good, maybe even necessary. The W3 validation process is neither.
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pageoneresults
Posts: 1001
From: Orange, CA USA
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RE: W3 Validation is a scam - 4/22/2004 11:59:43
quote:
This isn't about standards. It's about the W3 validation process.
Yes it about standards. And, yes it is about W3 validation. The two work hand in hand together. How can you implement standards if you are not going to write valid code?
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BobbyDouglas
Posts: 5431
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From: Arizona
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RE: W3 Validation is a scam - 4/22/2004 15:40:34
Minix, what is wrong with the W3C process?
I think there is something that isn't quite getting across. The standards for building a site should be well known, and will hopefully be followed.
Im sure everyone has different views on this issue, I just don't quite understand what you are talking about.
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davids
Posts: 211
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Belgium (American)
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RE: W3 Validation is a scam - 4/22/2004 16:09:53
Minix, I'm not sure why you find standards so objectionable. Once in a while, like today, I have to deal with someone using a 4.0 browser who can't see or use something on a page. HTML could not stay in its 1996 stage forever. If we want to do newer, cooler, better things, page markup had to develop.
Thanks to standards, that development has meant that a conforming page will appear pretty much the same in IE, Netscape, Safari, Opera, etc. Usually, when I have a problem, I can find it through validation.
Sure, I can develop a site just using html without CSS, and cross my fingers, but I will be doing my client a great disservice in terms of the usability and future maintenance of the site. I get quite a few sites handed to me that are very cool and slick, but they are unreadable, difficult to navigate, unfriendly to search engines, and generally poorly designed in every way except creatively.
Creativeness is only one aspect of "creating" a site. For the client's sake now and in the future you have to go beyond that.
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Jammin1234
Posts: 35
Joined: 4/26/2004
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RE: W3 Validation is a scam - 4/27/2004 3:32:29
Hey, I need 30 posts
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