To Flash or not to flash? (Full Version)

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jaybee -> To Flash or not to flash? (5/1/2004 10:30:32)

OK, not sure that this is quite the right place to put this as it's more of a technical methodology I need rather than critiques. The site is enormous and I know there are some real nasties in there as it developed over a long period and an even longer learning curve.

Under Gorilla's watchful eye I've started to optimise some of the stuff to get the downloads faster and I've suceeded pretty well with what I've done so far but this page has got me.

It currently uses tables for postioning so I've played around with css and that works fine but it still takes ages to load. It makes heavy use of javascript for all the graphic swaps and I suspect that's where the problem lies.

I've thought about doing it with Flash but I'm a bit worried that people won't necessarily have Flash enabled and I don't really want them to have to download it first. Is there any other way I can accomplish exactly what I've got but faster?

Jukebox

I should say at this point that I've mentioned the speed to my visitors and no one is complaining but it irritates me. It's all Gorilla's fault, he's turned me into a speed freak. [&:]




d a v e -> RE: To Flash or not to flash? (5/1/2004 11:01:14)

your buttons are too big 5.5k! you could use css but you won't get that jukebos look. I'm sure you could make smaller (filesize) buttons say half the size if they were gifs and carefully optimised.

i don't think using flash would save that much also once the buttons are loaded they're in cache anyway.




jaybee -> RE: To Flash or not to flash? (5/1/2004 11:21:21)

I've spent ages getting them down to that size. Every time I've tried to get them smaller they go fuzzy.

There are somthing in the region of 30 mouseover effects that I've shrunk as much as I can too.




d a v e -> RE: To Flash or not to flash? (5/1/2004 11:31:03)

well for example this is only 1.83k (it's not exactly the same but it's similar enough to get an idea of compression and clarity)

http://members.surfeu.fi/dave_pirjo/test-area/graphics/jukebox_eg.gif

(can't upload a pic in quick reply mode)




Giomanach -> RE: To Flash or not to flash? (5/1/2004 11:37:23)

One Word:

CSS

So it's an abbreviation[:D]




d a v e -> RE: To Flash or not to flash? (5/1/2004 13:14:20)

yes but the feel of this site is largely due to the images and therefore the rolloovers, i don't think you could achieve the same look and feel using css buttons. i'd personally go with the rollovers, if they were smaller - or at least optimise the whole jukebox graphic as much as possible before having to resort to css. I think for this kind of site the rollovers are a legitimate choice if not an obligatory one.




jaybee -> RE: To Flash or not to flash? (5/1/2004 13:59:06)

Yes Dan, I've tried it but it doesn't reduce it enough to make much difference on load times. Dave is right, it's the graphics. I'm going to have another play with them and see what happens.




Giomanach -> RE: To Flash or not to flash? (5/1/2004 14:36:50)

You can do image rollovers with CSS. It's just a bit long winded that's all. I'll take a screen shot of the Jukebox later, and try and put it into Flash Player 4 for you, if I get the time to




jaybee -> RE: To Flash or not to flash? (5/1/2004 16:02:05)

I can do it if I'm just changing it using link and hover but don't you still end up using javascript to change the image in a different div?

I've got the button sizes down in Fireworks and they look OKish. Couldn't do it in PSP though for some reason. (Not uploaded yet so don't bother charging off to look)

I don't think Flash is going to help but I could be wrong.




d a v e -> RE: To Flash or not to flash? (5/1/2004 16:08:30)

did you optimise as gifs?




jaybee -> RE: To Flash or not to flash? (5/1/2004 16:20:20)

No, they came out better as jpegs which surprised me.

I let fireworks handle it and the jpegs were smaller and clearer.




d a v e -> RE: To Flash or not to flash? (5/1/2004 16:22:50)

i did my example in fireworks and did it as a gif and it seemed fairly small (as per eg half a page up) but i didn't look into it that much. glad you've sussed it!




jaybee -> RE: To Flash or not to flash? (5/1/2004 16:59:49)

Still not completely sussed. Some of the other graphics come out better as gifs. [:@]




gorilla -> RE: To Flash or not to flash? (5/1/2004 17:22:01)

Personally I wouldn't go down the flash route - but thats me. It would be acceptable I think for such a site but might well be horrifically slow. I'd PM bobbydouglass I think he's a whizz with flash.

BTW if you have fp98 or fp2000 don't turn up your nose at image composer (2nd CD) its save for web routine can give quite impressive results.




jaybee -> RE: To Flash or not to flash? (5/1/2004 17:42:03)

FP98 or 2000! I'll have you know I'm all mod cons here.

[Rooting around in in desk drawer]

Where's that flippin CD gone?

[;)]




Giomanach -> RE: To Flash or not to flash? (5/2/2004 1:49:12)

CSS Image rollovers, longwinded, but it works:

To start off with, set a class for all of the cells for the images to go in:

.link1{
backfround-image: url(imagelocation.jpg);
background-position: fixed;
background-repeat: no-repeat;
}

Set one for each cell. Assign the classes to the cells. Now, create one transparent gif, the same size as the cell, without a border etc as the link. It's got nothing in it so it should be practically sizeless (is that a word????). Insert into each cell.

The set your hover links for the table (obviously set a general a:hover for this)

jukebox a:hover{
background-image: url(imagelocation2.jpg);
background-position: fixed;
background-repeat: no-repeat;
}

might have to set the rollovers individually, depends on how you set the originals

Dan




jaybee -> RE: To Flash or not to flash? (5/2/2004 5:11:55)

OK, I get that but what about the cases where it swaps two images at the same time?

Sorry, that might be blindingly obvious but my brain is totally befuddled having been up most of the night. We had some drunken kids rampaging through the village last night smashing windows, damaging cars etc so we had the Police here from 2.30am onwards. Finally got to bed at 5.30 having patched up hole in front window.




BobbyDouglas -> RE: To Flash or not to flash? (5/2/2004 12:47:23)

Jaybee, this IS something that would be a lot nicer in flash.

I think it would be best to provide a flash option, but have a JS that will check if the user has flash, if so, continue down the correct page, else goto another page of html.

If you can send me the source images I could whip up some flash in no time for ya so you can see the difference. If you feel like spending countless hours trying to fuss around with CSS/image compression go ahead and do it, as some people do not have flash.

Since your are on Apache, check out my PHP Compression Tool to save some stuff.




jaybee -> RE: To Flash or not to flash? (5/2/2004 13:31:58)

Oooooh kissy kissy. What an offer. A free php compression tool and a flash jukebox.

OK Dan what are you throwing into the pot? [sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif]

It's very kind of both of you to offer. If you have the time to spare then I'll gladly accept someone else doing the work. The last thing I did in flash was a rotating car and at one point it just drove off the page and never came back! [&:]

PM with an address I can ship the files to.

Gorilla, I never pass up a freebie especially when I'm up to my eyeballs with other stuff. [:D]




J-man -> RE: To Flash or not to flash? (5/18/2004 19:14:51)

Flash would save you a lot of file size, in fact i could take the whole jukebox image with all button and get it down to about 8k in total. Plus me like many users don't have Active Script enabled due to security reasons. I only enable it for this site, and i really should have to, but anyway.... do it in flash version 3 and you will have no problems, that is if you a skilled at flash




dpf -> RE: To Flash or not to flash? (5/18/2004 20:01:47)

omg P J Proby!




jaybee -> RE: To Flash or not to flash? (5/19/2004 3:39:01)

Sir Bob has done a stirling job for me and done a superb Flash version. Haven't had time to put it up on the site yet but hoping to get it done next weekend.

quote:

omg P J Proby!


Yes! The very same. You may be surprised to know that he's making a comeback. He's played quite a few gigs in the UK and he has a very active fan club. They found that page and contacted me. I'm told he's very good live but at his age, I hope he doesn't still go in for splitting his trousers. Not a good move for a sixty year old. [:'(]




dpf -> RE: To Flash or not to flash? (5/19/2004 8:28:24)

We were sort of fascinated with him in the States in the mid 60s but could get little info or music on him. The guy from that era that I am still a great fan of is Peter Green ala Fleetwood Mac. I got to see him in Cleveland in 98 after his comeback.




jaybee -> RE: To Flash or not to flash? (5/19/2004 8:56:55)

We're going a bit off topic here, I'll PM you.




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