Web Design rates (Full Version)

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shaw -> Web Design rates (6/1/2004 9:57:24)

Could anyone give me advice on how to charge clients or are there any good sites on Web Design rates? My client wants me to add something to my web page (which wasn't discussed in the initial Web request) that would result in custom scripting. I have done it before so all I would have to do is modify the script to their needs, but I feel that i'm "doing too much" for what i'm being paid. I put my foot in my mouth and said that I could do it, but we didn't discuss if it would be extra. But of course, I don't know if I should charge extra. We only discussed a budget, and now that I am almost finished, I still can't say how much I need to charge. I need information such as rather I should bill per hour or per page and what I should charge extra for (such as custom graphics, ASP programming, adding simple JavaScripts and actually putting in content for the Web).



Giomanach -> RE: Web Design rates (6/1/2004 10:25:27)

I always charge extra for customisation of coding. I'll slap anything from $50 to $300 on the price for it. And I be greedy and do £50 - £300 for UK clients[:D]



dpf -> RE: Web Design rates (6/1/2004 11:04:18)

unless you intend to do sites for free, you ultimately have to sit down and calculate your rates.
1. what are your overhead costs?
2. are you full time or part time (that has bearing on how to spread your overhead).
3.in addition to the work you do, how much time do you spend acquiring work? If you run a business and spend 20 hrs a week getting the work and 20 hours doing it, do you only intend to be paid for 20 hrs @ week? of course not!
4. at some point, you pick an hourly rate of profit and work you way backwards..using data above,
5. and dont wind up with $10 -$12 hour!!!! if you can design ad build web sites, you are skilled! your rates should reflect that.

even if you charge a fee for s ite, underneath that fee is some degree of calculation as to how long it will take you which gets back to an hourly rate. If you are doing something for the first time and arent as fast as a "pro" would be on that task- you shouldnt charge how long it takes you - you should charge how long it ought to take you- eat the difference and write it off to your education.

I charge around $60 per hour and discount that whenever i need to or feel like it.
hth



Giomanach -> RE: Web Design rates (6/2/2004 7:47:51)

I wouldn't charge by the hour. May seem a bit obvious, but someone, somewhere, will say "You're charging by the hour, does that mean you'll take as long as possible to get as much money out of me?"

Obviously you're answer will be no. But you have to come up with some good excuses as to why not.

</0.02>

Dan



dpf -> RE: Web Design rates (6/2/2004 7:53:50)

Dan
I understand your point.... in fact, I dont charge by the hour if I am uilding from scratch where i can anticipate the variables, I only charge hourly when I am updating or maintaining someone elses work that has hidden tdangers.


With the said thoug, I still believe that underneath it all, you need to calculate what you need per hour to make a profit. If I say I will build a site for $1500.00, that is based upon how long I think it will take me - the customer doesnt hear an hourly rate but its there. If you dont do the math (and include administrative and other non -billable time) you wind up working your tail off and not making any money



Reflect -> RE: Web Design rates (6/2/2004 7:57:09)

I do both. It depends on the job. If it is a freelance fix my issue type job or plug in X type of function I quote via the hour. If it is a rebuild/redesign/SEO I quote by the job.

quote:

which wasn't discussed in the initial Web request

Scope creep [:@]. turn it around and explain that it was not in the inital request for work.

In the case you state as your question an hourly rate seems to fit the bill but that is just me. I really can't/won't go into rates myself, it differs on what and where as far as pricing.

quote:

Obviously you're answer will be no. But you have to come up with some good excuses as to why not.


Never had to make an excuse yet [;)].

Take care,

Brian



Giomanach -> RE: Web Design rates (6/2/2004 8:03:36)

quote:

If you dont do the math (and include administrative and other non -billable time) you wind up working your tail off and not making any money

Very much agreed there

But my prices are mainly calculated by the amount of work to be done rather than the time it takes. But after a few clients, you realise they are in correlation with each other.

I would put a time scale together first, THEN, work on the quotation. I also have a referral scheme going, but that doesn't seem to be much incentive for people[:D]

BUT, if the client comes to me and says, "I've seen this on http://www.website.com, can you do something similar for my project", whilst I'm in the process of building the web, I will just slap on a fixed fee of $50 - $300 etc, dependant on how much work it will cause. I will also revise the quote, and add "Additional Work As Agreed" to it

Dan



dpf -> RE: Web Design rates (6/2/2004 8:19:23)

irrespective of how we calculate it, we all ultimately arrive at a "price" and especially for new businesses, a couple of important issues here:
1. as Brian says, the old "scope" issue. I worked for governemtn for years and saw humungous battles with contractors over "scope" - costly monetarily and costly in terms of working relationships. It is what Shaw's post began with. there is no sure fire way to avoid it but you minimize it by being precise in writing at the beginning of the project and then when asked to do more, matter-of -factly saying what the fee for the extra is.
2. most new business owners are scared of not getting work and bid low to get work - hel i did it. Mistake. do you want 10 $500 jobs or one $5000 jobs?



Giomanach -> RE: Web Design rates (6/2/2004 8:22:08)

quote:

2. most new business owners are scared of not getting work and bid low to get work - hel i did it. Mistake. do you want 10 $500 jobs or one $5000 jobs?

I'm not[:D]

The only reason why one of my clients is paying under $500 for his site is b'cos he already wasted $1800 on what is a very simple site structure, and the ASP coding involved is simple. The others well, they're paying more around the $600 mark, but I do ask for a budget as well, I shouldn't really do that though, should I?



dpf -> RE: Web Design rates (6/2/2004 8:26:08)

quote:

but I do ask for a budget as well, I shouldn't really do that though, should I?

Im not sure what you meant there , dan.



Giomanach -> RE: Web Design rates (6/2/2004 8:30:43)

When a potential customer contacts me via the contact page on my web, I merely ask them for an email address, contact name and details about the desired web (I need to alter a couple of things on it as well). If they don't tell me how much they have to fund the web, I will contact them and ask if they have a budget or are running the site pro-bono (no budget)

By asking for a budget, I am restricting the amount I can charge, if given one.

Dan



dpf -> RE: Web Design rates (6/2/2004 8:40:57)

actually dan. that may not be a bad technique..as long as you just consider it part of the bargaining process.
"do you have a budget?"
"yes, we are limitied to $500"
"well, the sort of work you are interested in often runs about $2000 (double what you would really charge..lol), but I would be willing to come down if you can come up a bit..or perhaps we could do the job in phases"

I wouldnt ask if they want pro bono tho....lol. once they say yes, it leaves you little wiggle room



Giomanach -> RE: Web Design rates (6/2/2004 8:43:54)

Ahhhhh, good thinking. Cheers, now I gotta get back to work, loads to do[&:]

I don't actually ask if they run it pro-bono I just politely ask for a budget, if any. If they say no, I assume Pro-bono[8|]



dpf -> RE: Web Design rates (6/2/2004 9:39:38)

quote:

I just politely ask for a budget, if any. If they say no, I assume Pro-bono

hey dan..when they say no budget, just assume unlimited..lol



jaybee -> RE: Web Design rates (6/2/2004 10:03:54)

Ummmm, surely the simplest way is to get the client to agree a spec up front.

This is what you asked for.... this is what I'm charging.

When they come back and ask for additional work it's quite clear that it is additional work. You then either renegotiate or you have something in the original quote which details the cost of extras.



Peppergal -> RE: Web Design rates (6/2/2004 10:10:10)

I usually give a basic price and outline all that is included in that price.

Then, I give a list of all extras that I can do and how much they will cost if wanted, such as slide shows, forms, photo retouching, etc....

I know I'm undercharging.....I need to raise my prices a bit...



dpf -> RE: Web Design rates (6/2/2004 10:12:20)

i know this sounds strange but i have been told by soooo many professionals including lawyers - people are suspicious of a cheap price..they feel "you get what you pay for" and if you are too cheap, they asume amateur..and so raising prices can lead to more work. hey! what a great world..lol



Peppergal -> RE: Web Design rates (6/2/2004 10:28:53)

Yeah, and I discovered too that some customers don't give a RIP how much it costs...they tell me so! I would NEVER say that, but hey....I like it when THEY say it to me! LOL



bobby -> RE: Web Design rates (6/2/2004 13:57:08)

I always go by three simple pieces of advice that I've collected over the past few years...

First: figure what you want to make per hour, then charge tripple that for your hourly rate. That way you have a little cushion for the "lean" times.

Second: Always provide a detailed quote or project scope. Include everything, and include a statement that change orders will be billed at your hourly rate of $xx.xx

Third: Split up the job into three segments. The first one is creating an image, or mock-up of what the page will look like. This lets the customer see what it's going to look like, and they'll know what to expect.

Once that's approved, get a third of your quoted price.

The next segment is to build a template page... upload it, send them a link. After they make changes and approve it, get another third of the quote.

Finally, use the page template to create the pages of the site... once it's ready, upload it to a subweb on your site so they can go through it and find corrections or changes...

After they pay the final 1/3 of the bill, upload the site to their server...



dpf -> RE: Web Design rates (6/2/2004 14:01:12)

excellent stategy bobby... the only thing i do different is that i get some money up front....doesnt have to be 1/3..can be 10% but i learned the hard way that if people have not put any money on the table, tehy procrastinate or lose interest..once they have posted a non refundable sum, they remain very interested in having the project move forward.



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