legally telling someone NO (Full Version)

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Tressa -> legally telling someone NO (7/10/2004 9:39:37)

I had mentioned this problem earlier, but have new thoughts on it:

I take care of a town website. Some businesses have expressed an interest in wanting more exposure for themselves, in the way of an expanded page on their business, or banner advertising.

Because this site falls under city government, we continually run up against the problem of legalities; we cannot legally turn anyone away (e.g. adult bookstore - free speech and such) - we are trying to come up with a solution, and have been stalling thus far.

Then you take my local paper that controls their content...and that got me to thinking of a workaround solution. If I posted expanded advertising off on a separate domain, and had a disclaimer that the town website is not responsible for the content of linked pages outside of their site, that would work? ----plus side, I could control content, downside, I put myself in the legal line of fire? (I would have to, of course, feature a text link to get to the page, which would not be as appealing as banner advertising???)

I, myself, could take in the ad revenue, technically the town website could not. The town website was hoping to pull in some ad revenue, but not with this arrangement.

I would like some feedback for this interesting scenario.
Thanks - Tressa



dpf -> RE: legally telling someone NO (7/10/2004 9:52:47)

quote:

Because this site falls under city government, we continually run up against the problem of legalities; we cannot legally turn anyone away (e.g. adult bookstore - free speech and such) - we are trying to come up with a solution, and have been stalling thus far.

Although I have some questions about that statement ( and I am going to ask my lawyer friends) I will accept it as true for now. Assuming that is true, doesn't the law also address the issue of "adult content" not being legal for minors? Well, on second thought, if the add itself isnt "adult" I suppose that will not suffice. hhmmm why not create a seperate adult content section with vigorous disclaimer pages and pages requiring the visitor to confirm over age 18 (yes, a kid could just check "yes im 18") but my point is those ads are buried beneath 3 or 4 disclaimer pages and city officals are essentially saying to the community " you dont have to see these"...secondly, while nudity is free speech, it is prohibited for minors and since you cannot actually keep kids out, you therefore can edit content of the ads... newspapers do it all the time..strip clubs advertise (usuaaly in the sports section - go figrue..lol) but their ads are girls "face only". their free speech rights are within the walls of their club not on the public streets. so in summary I suggest:

1. Adult section to let community know "
we dont openly display or condone"
2. strong editing and control of content even within adult section



dpf -> RE: legally telling someone NO (7/10/2004 9:54:49)

another option ( and this is for the city officilas to decide not you ) is just say "no"..let them sue - take a stand, i bet voters would support them!



Larry M. -> RE: legally telling someone NO (7/10/2004 15:11:48)

<<another option ( and this is for the city officilas to decide not you ) is just say "no"..let them sue - take a stand, i bet voters would support them!>>


Good call by Dan. I just dabble in web site design but take a firm stand when it comes to this particular topic. On my design site, my real estate sites and about a dozen others I've developed, I usually include the following statement under "Terms of Use / Legal Disclaimer":

It is the policy of Carolina Web Design to promote a responsible, business and family friendly Internet by refusing to design or host sites containing any illegal, pornographic, racist, anti-government, anti-religious, unpatriotic, morally objectionable or hate-filled content. This site conforms to our policy in every respect.

This takes any decision and/or heat away from my web clients - its not their decision to make - it goes to my principles, period. I was even interviewed by the local paper, The Easley Journal Progress, and an article later appeared concerning this very statement. Outcome? Outcry? None. Zip. No one has ever questioned my stand and, in fact, I think this has helped me acquire additional status in our community.

I mean, really, who's going to come after me - the ACLU? I doubt it. The ACLU is too busy defending the "rights" of a bunch of bearded cowards who subjugate women, have unnatural affections for their camels and are preoccupied with explosives from birth. Well let 'em come - the first people I would notify would be the Easley Journal Progress. I'm very sure they would help me garner public support and the issue would subsequently die a natural death. Probably would be good for business too.



Mojo -> RE: legally telling someone NO (7/10/2004 18:11:42)

Why not hire an attorney and ask them?



Donkey -> RE: legally telling someone NO (7/10/2004 19:31:47)

quote:

It is the policy of Carolina Web Design to promote a responsible, business and family friendly Internet by refusing to design or host sites containing any illegal, pornographic, racist, anti-government, anti-religious, unpatriotic, morally objectionable or hate-filled content. This site conforms to our policy in every respect
No fun there then[:D]

Censorship is all very well but who censors the censor?

Seriously though I think you are going a little too far here, I would use the shorthand version citing just "illegal, pornographic or morally objectionable" That covers all your other categories except for the two dodgy ones i.e. "anti government" which in your democracy and ours means (at any one time) the majority of voters as governments are never elected by an absolute overall majority; and "anti-religious" which again is a majority of the population in most western countries. Morality and good behaviour is not something you can only learn by studying scriptures and I find it slightly objectionable when people try to censor other peoples beliefs by imposing their own viewpoint. Surely any religion should be big enough to stand a bit of healthy satire? BTW No offence is intended to anyone of a religious nature, I respect your right to believe whatever you like and I expect the same privilege.



dpf -> RE: legally telling someone NO (7/10/2004 19:51:19)

quote:

It is the policy of Carolina Web Design to promote a responsible, business and family friendly Internet by refusing to design or host sites containing any illegal, pornographic, racist, anti-government, anti-religious, unpatriotic, morally objectionable or hate-filled content. This site conforms to our policy in every respect.

there are actually a lot of legal dangers in taking this position. Most hosting companies maintain that they are NOT the equivalent of print publishers who are responsible for the material they present. By proclaiming that you DO edit the sites you publish, you are taking an editorial and therefore responsility stance. If one of your sites said something slanderous, for example, and you were joined in the suit, your own policy could/would be used to establish that you do indeed take editorial responsibilty - and therefore are liable for content.



Larry M. -> RE: legally telling someone NO (7/10/2004 20:02:06)

<<I find it slightly objectionable when people try to censor other peoples beliefs by imposing their own viewpoint>>

Donkey,

The distinction here is that I haven't imposed my beliefs on anyone - your statement implies a positive action. My statement is completely passive with respect to what I unequivocally refuse to do. Moralizing aside, it boils down to choices - mine and and that of the general consuming public.

BTW, my proposal for web services includes this statement which, so far, my web clients have always signed-off on without hesitation.



Donkey -> RE: legally telling someone NO (7/10/2004 20:20:48)

Larry,
I understand your view completely - sorry if I was a bit too aggressive in my earlier post - I can get a bit cantankerous sometimes. You are quite right; moralising aside it's a market thing and as long as your market likes it that's fine.

Over here in permissive old Britain our politically correct thought police would probably be accusing you of unfairly discriminating against racists, pornographers, radicals and atheists. [;)]



Tressa -> RE: legally telling someone NO (7/12/2004 8:36:44)

Thanks for everyone's sincere interest.

This being a small-town website, I really doubt we will ever have "adult content" to contend with. but there are always issues that we can never foresee (slander, false advertising and such). We could ask our city lawyer, but really do not have it in the budget for him to research it. And knowing how he operates, he will give us two sides of the coin, (most likely to take our chances or steer clear) and he would support us either way.

One thought that our web committee voiced is that just by putting a disclaimer on the site, it would put the idea into people's heads that they could get "bucky" with us, in an otherwise smooth operation...but if its one thing I've learned - ALWAYS cover yourself!

That is one nice thing I have in place is a small committee of people from our town to decide policies like this. Unfortunately, we are all treading into new waters, looking for answers.

I like the idea of posting a policy that states, "It is the policy of (Town's Website) to promote a responsible, business and family friendly Internet by refusing to post ads or other material containing any illegal, pornographic, or morally objectionable content."

I would not take personal responsibility for their site by adding my business name, I am just contracted to maintain the site and do not have a lawyer behind me as they do... but the question remains, could someone come up and contest that statement?



dpf -> RE: legally telling someone NO (7/12/2004 9:13:12)

quote:

I would not take personal responsibility for their site by adding my business name, I am just contracted to maintain the site and do not have a lawyer behind me as they do... but the question remains, could someone come up and contest that statement?

As mojo said succintly, hiring a lawyer is the only wat to be sure ( and even then, it depends upon which lawyer) and Im not a lawyer but...
1.I seriously doubt any "adult" business would want to advertise on the citys web site - they have so many better options.
2. If the city held an awards banquet and sold some ads on the back of the Program (which is often done) would they fear being approached by an "adult" business for consideration? I doubt it.
3.is your city attorney salary (even part-time)? you say "in the budget as if he is hourly. why not ask him for his "off-the-cuff" input so you can exam his 2-sided reasoning.
4. If, and I emphasize if, an "adult" business sued the city for rejecting its ads, remember that it would be heard first in a lower court or even progression of lower courts and lower courts are local- oftentimes, local judges (who get elected locally) will support local perspectives. Even if this is some violation of rights ( which I question) , they would probably not get a favorable ruling until they reached state supreme court (whatever it is called in your state) or even a Federal court - such endeavors are very expensive!!

I say go for it...the committee represents the community and community values....dont be intimidated by what probably will never occur.



Charles W Davis -> RE: legally telling someone NO (7/14/2004 22:46:09)

Tressa,

quote:

This being a small-town website, I really doubt we will ever have "adult content" to contend with.


Don't bet on it!



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