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DLMST
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Frames and photo gallery - 8/24/2004 11:05:04
Hello there, I'm considering a change to the way I currently have my photo galleries set up on my web site. I'm wondering about using Frames where the bottom of a gallery page has a scroll bar with thumbnails below it. When you click on the thumbnail a larger version of that image appears in the large frame above. It's a feature of Photoshop Elements 2. Currently I have a page which shows all the thumbs for that particular gallery. When you click on the thumb you are taken to another page with the enlarged view and a few notations on it (ex. http://www.dstappan.com/prod16.htm ).
I've read about a few of the problems associated with using frames (search engine listing confusion, etc.). To get around the search engine listing problem, couldn't I just include search terms in the header of the gallery index page that correspond to each of the images on that gallery page? That way, if someone searches for an image that matches one of those terms, the frame index page for that gallery would appear? Or am I misunderstanding the problem?
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Cheers,
DLMST
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dpf
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RE: Frames and photo gallery - 8/24/2004 11:11:11
quote:
To get around the search engine listing problem, couldn't I just include search terms in the header of the gallery index page that correspond to each of the images on that gallery page? That way, if someone searches for an image that matches one of those terms, the frame index page for that gallery would appear? Or am I misunderstanding the problem?
yes you can add keywords on the main frame page to reflect all of the frame pages that are linked in. However, the essential problem with frames is that they contain no html for the spider to read - they simply indicate frameset and reference the frames/pages the comprise the frames and, thus, the spider may not index your page. One workaround for that ( that I seldom see used) is the noframes tag. this was designed to provide html for browsers that didnt support frames. Since most browsers in use today do support frames, many designers feel it is unnecessary to put anything in there - or they put in the condescending "your browser doesnt support frames". What I recommend is to fill it with some accurate and meaningful html text - knowing that most users wont see it but the spider will. As long as it is relevant to the page content, it would not be spam IMHO.
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Swirl
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RE: Frames and photo gallery - 8/24/2004 11:11:36
What version of FP are you using? FP2002 has a gallery layout (slideshow) that has thumbnails at the top with the larger picture below. As you click on the thumbnails, the large picture changes.
Swirl
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Thomas Brunt
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RE: Frames and photo gallery - 8/24/2004 11:14:54
A search engine spider gets to the frameset page and sees only the frameset code. The spider cannot jump from that frameset to any page on your site because it must follow hyperlinks to find pages.
It is possible to place hyperlinks inside a <noframes> tag within your frameset page. That will theoretically allow the spider to follow those hyperlinks to index specific pages with text and alt tags for images.
If the search engine does follow those noframes hyperlinks, it will index the pages outside of the frameset. That's what the searcher will see (just that page -- not the frameset.) This is true unless you place scripting on the page to force it back into a frameset.
Most people find that this route is more trouble than it's worth. That doesn't mean your situation doesn't warrent that kind of approach, however.
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Giomanach
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RE: Frames and photo gallery - 8/24/2004 11:29:22
Noframes? They would gp about here:
<frameset>
.......frame settings yada yada
</frameset>
<noframes>
Sorry You're browser does not support frames
</noframes>
Dan
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DLMST
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RE: Frames and photo gallery - 8/24/2004 11:38:43
Hi, thank you!!
DLMST
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dpf
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RE: Frames and photo gallery - 8/24/2004 11:43:27
quote:
The spider cannot jump from that frameset to any page on your site because it must follow hyperlinks to find pages.
I have to disagree there, Tom. AS the code below shows, the frame sections are indeed links which the spider could or may be programmed to follow. However, the absence of meaningful content on the index/frame page, they are often programmed to then abandon the site and move on. Even if they do go into a frame, it is only a portion of the intended page as so if it does get listed, it is incomplete - who wants that?
<frameset rows="100,*,20" framespacing="0" border="0" frameborder="no">
<frame name="menu" src="default.html" scrolling="no" frameborder="no" framespacing="0">
<frame name="main" src="giving.htm" scrolling="auto" frameborder="no" framespacing="0">
<frame name="bottom" src="bottom.htm" scrolling="no" frameborder="no" framespacing="0">
</frameset>
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dpf
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RE: Frames and photo gallery - 8/24/2004 11:45:58
quote:
<noframes>
Sorry You're browser does not support frames
</noframes>
Dan
what I referred to as condescending..... If your visitor uses a browser that does not support frames, is that all you want to say? just buzz off? isnt it worth your while to write some html to deliver the message? with all the talk about making the web accessible to handicapped, isnt the spirit of that "available to all"? I dont want to punish or brush off visitors who dont have the browser that I think they should have.
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Thomas Brunt
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RE: Frames and photo gallery - 8/24/2004 12:04:37
dpf
Sorry if my information is not correct. I have been told more than once that spiders do not follow scr attributes in frame tags. You you sure about that?
I can't think of a reason why a search engine would think a spider should do indexing that way. It would mean displaying lots of pages outside of their intended framesets.
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dpf
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RE: Frames and photo gallery - 8/24/2004 12:14:19
quote:
Sorry if my information is not correct. I have been told more than once that spiders do not follow scr attributes in frame tags. You you sure about that?
actually, Tom, I was splitting hairs - a little - a spider "could" follow the link - are they programmed to do so? I'm not sure but I have seen a few partial frame pages indexed - can't be sure how they got there - ugly when they are listed..lol
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Thomas Brunt
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RE: Frames and photo gallery - 8/24/2004 12:22:45
My guess is that they were indexed by some accident -- maybe the no frames trick, but I would be suprized.
The no frames tag trick came into vogue about 5 years ago. You could load up a frameset page with all kinds of key words, phrases, links, even image tags with keywords in the alt attributes. No visitor would see it, but the spiders would back then.
A collegue of mine at my previous employer had great success with it. I have no idea if it still works.
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dpf
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RE: Frames and photo gallery - 8/24/2004 16:05:31
quote:
What does the dialogue re: frames mean?
well, you asked the question - we tried to answer. I'm not sure what you dont understand.
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DLMST
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RE: Frames and photo gallery - 8/24/2004 16:13:50
Hi, the part I didn't understand was the discussion that followed regarding whether or not a "spider" could or could not follow the "links" (attributes in frame tags?). I don't have a firm grasp of "frames". Sorry.
DLMST
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dpf
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RE: Frames and photo gallery - 8/24/2004 16:18:45
frames are very tricky - unfun - if yo udon't have a firm grasp, I would suggest you avoid them until/unless you have time to do some reading and really understand them.. what abouts shirleys suggestion above?
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DLMST
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RE: Frames and photo gallery - 8/24/2004 16:30:18
I didn't realize Frames was so complicated. The option provided in Photoshop Elements 2 made it look simple. It appears it is not so simple once you want to start customizing it esthetically and also to customize it to work more smoothly for all.
Yep, I think I may go with the FrontPage 2002 slideshow option instead. I'm running a Javascript for my pull down menu at the top of the pages. This FP option shouldn't conflict with that code right? (I read that it's difficult to get two scripts to run on the same page.) I'll give it a test run and see what happens.
Thanks,
DLMST
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DLMST
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RE: Frames and photo gallery - 9/1/2004 14:47:27
Now I remember why I didn't use FrontPage slideshow when I created my site. It doesn't seem to work correctly in other browsers than IE. I searched this forum and found that I had asked about this quite a while ago (sorry) and was told it had proprietary features. Duh, I can't believe I had forgotten about that.
The other option, using Frames (PE2 feature) does seem more complicated to me to customize and integrate into my current web pages. So, I again looked into various JAVA scripts but couldn't find one that fit my needs. Then I did another search here at this forum and found a mention of JAlbum and WebAlbum. What do you think? Do these integrate well with FrontPage and work well across different browsers? Any complications?
Thanks again for your help.
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caz
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RE: Frames and photo gallery - 9/2/2004 14:58:00
When I was looking for a gallery option that was standards compliant and didn't use javascript I found
Web Album and so far I am pleased with it. Using CSS you can style it to fit your site more closely, but as it comes out of the box I find it very pleasing and easy to use. I didn't find any problems with FP either.
You can see it in action here at a site that is in the very early stages of building; I have not yet customised the gallery navigation.
HTH
Carol
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Printable Version 
I can't believe I missed that option. 
You inadvertently rattled my noggin. 
