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hoopsking
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More Domains for Better Search Results? - 9/24/2004 10:05:31
Would it work to buy domain names of keywords that would get people to my site. For example, would buying www.basketballdrills.net and then redirecting it to my main site get me listed higher in search engines by having the domain basketballdrills.net?
I'm not sure if the redirecting it would get the domain name recognized by the search engines.
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dpf
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RE: More Domains for Better Search Results? - 9/24/2004 10:07:43
it is my understanding that "excessive" usage of this technique will get you banned. i hear you saying "define excessive" - lol. if the extra domains have no real content or repeat the content on your main page, I think that would be detected.
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Reflect
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RE: More Domains for Better Search Results? - 9/24/2004 11:43:15
Also, if buying the domain soley for this purpose I would use delimitors in the domain name.
www.basket-ball-drills.net
Will be seen as three words by the spiders/bots.
Take care,
Brian
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dpf
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RE: More Domains for Better Search Results? - 9/24/2004 11:46:54
quote:
Would it work
what, exactly, are you trying to accomplish? increase PR because of these links? accomodate mis-typings? it really begs the question
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hoopsking
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RE: More Domains for Better Search Results? - 9/24/2004 12:59:27
I'm just trying to get listed higher in google on these keywords. For example, you type in outfront in google and it will probably be the top listing. Type in basketball videos and basketballvideos.com will be right there.
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BobbyDouglas
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RE: More Domains for Better Search Results? - 9/24/2004 15:03:09
There is a lot of information about getting higher google PR. I suggest you do a search on google for it, you won't be able to get one definition with what you should do- there is just too much out their to do.
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dpf
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RE: More Domains for Better Search Results? - 9/24/2004 16:08:37
quote:
about getting higher google PR
there is no technique better than having significant, quality on your site which can then lead to meaningful back-links which google will reward. also, pay close attention to details like using alt tags and minimizing image links
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Anthony Parsons
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RE: More Domains for Better Search Results? - 9/26/2004 4:52:44
Merely buying of domains for redirection purposes has nothing to do with rankings. The only thing your going to capture with that process is if someone types the domain directly, they will be redirected to where you want them. I see client after client with 100+ domains, all of which are used ineffectively. For every domain you have, you need to run a link building campaign for it :: Cost $$$ x domain qty. If you interlink them all to one another, which 99% of people do, then when the engines finally work out what you have done within 6 - 12 months and it all crashes down around you, you can only blame yourself.
Domains will not rank by themselves. You don't need to have keywords within them to rank well either, regardless of the hype. Placing hypens in excessive amounts will only see you penalized in Yahoo, whilst Google still give little attention to them. My tip : concentrate on your one main domain, add content, folders, get a deep linking campaign and then worry about other methods to obtain rankings. The reason some companies register hundreds of domains, is because the terms they want to use them for a non-competitive, and as such are going to cost them very little to optimize. A good quality couple of pages, 10 good links and that's the job done for that domain. That domain then gives them another ranking position within the SERP's to aid the page that domain pay point back too on their main site. So instead of having just the main site listed, they have both for example, two out of the 10 positions on the frontpage of the SERP's. There is a time and place for many of these tactics, and you really have to assess whether they are right for you!
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Anthony Parsons
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RE: More Domains for Better Search Results? - 10/4/2004 9:45:48
This is true Brian, that it did used to work and most likely still is for some in Yahoo and MSN whom haven't been removed as yet. Before the floriday update for Google, yes, it did work for non-competitive terms, and well, lets face it, also gave some impact for any term really. Google now.....nope. Without links and without the text to match those links...nothing. Yahoo! Well, as we know, they are still providing MSN, however; Yahoo have been removing large dynamic sites recently for this technique. Suddenly, from 100,000 pages, down to 5000. I originally thought for one client, that it was more Yahoo putting their stamp down on sitematch inclusion, and so did many forums, but a simple change and removal of all the long keyword rich filenames soon fixed the problem, and a few months later, I got the site back up to about 70000 + pages indexed again. Yahoo have made this public though now, that utilising hypenated keyword names and domain names (anything over about 3) is unacceptable and they will consider it spamming them.
Good for them I say!
Google.....I just wish they would flick the switch back on so the damn thing works properly again...
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smcfarland
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RE: More Domains for Better Search Results? - 10/4/2004 9:58:43
quote:
Google.....I just wish they would flick the switch back on so the damn thing works properly again...
ROFLMAO
Multiple domains... I used to run multiple sites, but that was too hard with ecommerce to keep track of stock updates, etc. It works very well on a few search engines (namely Yahoo! and MSN) but will not work on google. On the upswing, in non-google engines, I do have at least 5 top ten rankings, sometimes I have the first ten results even, which is great...
HOWEVER - none of this will guarantee that you get the sales you want but it will suck up bandwidth.
Better to pick a great domain name and company name, get a good logo and brand yourself, then work on making a great site with CONTENT CONTENT CONTENT than anything else.
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Reflect
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RE: More Domains for Better Search Results? - 10/4/2004 14:32:43
quote:
Yahoo have made this public though now, that utilising hypenated keyword names and domain names (anything over about 3) is unacceptable and they will consider it spamming them.
I could relate to 3 +, that would be spammy. However for keyword-keyword.htm is this an issue still or the better question is any extra weight given?
Take care,
Brian
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Reflect
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RE: More Domains for Better Search Results? - 10/7/2004 14:57:26
Hi,
I did a little, 15 minutes, research on this. I made a post here as I consider a few posters at WMW speak gospel on the genre (and some answers were from them)...
http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum3/26107.htm
From that post and the answers I did a few, only, searches. Here is a domain that has multiple delimiters...
http://www.google.com/search?q=allinurl%3Awww.1-hit.com&hl=en&lr=
I also did some keyword searches in pro football terms and found quite a few multiple delimeter domains, file paths, and file names. They ranked quite well with three to five dashes in the domain string to file name.
So now I'm more confused as I respect Anthony's views. He has proved to me in the past articles that he knows of what he speaks.
So to this point I will still use two or less dashes in a file name. I have a new domain that I am in progress on. I guess I will test long term effects with that domain as I normally can get most pages to rank high on the SERPs.
Take care,
Brian
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Anthony Parsons
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RE: More Domains for Better Search Results? - 10/7/2004 21:33:23
You will always find URL's with multiple delimiters and hypens still indexed. At the last SES conference, all engines spoke about the abuse of hypens and all clearly stated to keep clear off them (aka: Pre-Warning), though Yahoo had implemented this strategy a while back now. You will still find multiple hypenated queries in Yahoo, and you will most likely still get them in their, in moderation, though the main abuse of the multiple hypen "this-is-my-keyword-term-here-to-make-this-query-string-excessively-long" is from CMS.
Either software manufactures, designers or SEO's have modded the CMS to spit out hypenated filenames in conjunction with static URL's. Static URL's, most essential, the hypenated filename was never made to stick long keyword terms into, but it was used as a spam technique, thus now we have lost it. No different to cloaking and all other techniques. They have a purpose, spammers abuse them, search engine penalized them. Stuffs us all up constantly. I come across numerous clients that still use the long keyword hypenated name, thousands of pages, and lost them all in Yahoo suddenly. The search engines see the pages more as doorways, because they are created for that exact purpose.
Multiple delimiter queries: Google is very good and reading these, others not so. However; if you supply a sitemap providing a link to each page, regardless or URL query, then the delimiters mean nothing at the end of the day, as the search engines have a direct link to the exact URL, without risk off being caught up in some spider trap. See the difference? I think some people give the con's to these methods, but there are simple techniques to get around them. The problem is most don't include a simple sitemap linking to each page, dynamic or static. Yes, we do tend to just say, keep away from it, but if its required, then do it and just implement x, y & z in conjunction with it. That's the bit they tend to leave out.
I hope that clears some off that up for you Brian? Just ask mate, I will give you the simplified version. Some just make it all to complicated for what it is.
PS. If you use an e-commerce solution, ie. sessions for tracking and payment purposes, then be aware that there are now static URL e-commerce carts available to counter act the session problem with the search engines. No more not having your shopping cart indexed because of sessions.
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smcfarland
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RE: More Domains for Better Search Results? - 10/7/2004 21:51:45
I have never had a problem with getting in and getting ranked in any search engine thus far (although the google drop after a few months on a new domain was scary). Get a domain that is memorable. Get good content, and make sure that there are no broken links. Design the site so that a person can get in and find what they are looking for within three clicks.
Eventually, it will all come down to content and how many legitimate sites with legit content are pointing your way. Once they get there, it is all pointless unless they can easily find what they want.
BTW - my shopping cart uses sessions... it is asp, there are no hyphens and google loves to index it.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Ababysunprotection.com
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Anthony Parsons
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RE: More Domains for Better Search Results? - 10/7/2004 22:32:17
Google will index just about everything...they are the only engine running any sort of advanced bot to cater these problems, the rest are not so advanced. Google only now caters for 28% of searches, Yahoo 26%, MSN 21%, approximately. A hell of a lot of traffic your missing out on just catering to Google.
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Anthony Parsons
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RE: More Domains for Better Search Results? - 10/7/2004 22:34:13
I know many SEO's may talk Google, Google and Google, but I don't. I cater all engines, the way in which any SEO should be catering for their clients, especially now with such a fine margin between search preferences.
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Anthony Parsons
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RE: More Domains for Better Search Results? - 10/7/2004 23:04:57
Your cart runs a sitemap though..."all categories" and so forth, so the engines can find your pages directly, and not have to determine the query like some carts. Very nice.
Multiple domains are very time intensive, yes. When managed correctly, they work well, but again, some abuse them. I have people come to in January this year after the floriday update last year, that they had lost all their rankings, all domains. I looked at it, and basically, every single domain interlinked within a big link farm. What did they expect? One goes down and the rest will be associated and go with them.
I sometimes think if people put as much time into the one or two quality sites, instead of trying to find the tricks and spam methods, they would never have the problems they lead themselves to have. Funny....
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Anthony Parsons
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RE: More Domains for Better Search Results? - 10/7/2004 23:09:15
So many shopping cart owners could avoid half the problems they have IMO, if they just linked the site together well. They just neglect that, and forget that search engines don't keep travelling deep unless they have a good strong link to put them their.
Your carts are well done summer. Yep....I could see your deep linking campaign being one hell of a mission though. Time does that for you I suppose anyway....
You should mod yours over to .aspx and write static URL's....that would be the next step for those I think. Make them much friendlier again to AOL, Teoma and the like.
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Anthony Parsons
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RE: More Domains for Better Search Results? - 10/7/2004 23:10:42
O, sorry, they are .aspx. How come you don't use static URL write?
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Reflect
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RE: More Domains for Better Search Results? - 10/12/2004 9:21:41
quote:
Multiple delimiter queries: Google is very good and reading these, others not so. However; if you supply a sitemap providing a link to each page, regardless or URL query, then the delimiters mean nothing at the end of the day, as the search engines have a direct link to the exact URL, without risk off being caught up in some spider trap. See the difference? I think some people give the con's to these methods, but there are simple techniques to get around them. The problem is most don't include a simple sitemap linking to each page, dynamic or static. Yes, we do tend to just say, keep away from it, but if its required, then do it and just implement x, y & z in conjunction with it. That's the bit they tend to leave out.
Are you saying a site map is a negative thing.
Also I am curious about keyword-keyword.htm. I undetrstand three plus but ??
Thanks again,
Brian
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Anthony Parsons
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RE: More Domains for Better Search Results? - 10/12/2004 9:41:03
No, a sitemap is a good thing, especially in the instance of multiple delimiters. One hypen is fine, two ok, any more and you are most definately pressing your luck with Yahoo, and who knows what is to come from it within the others.
It is just the age old problem really. Using a hypen to seperate a word is a good thing, looks better, readable and so forth, but then it was abused like everything, thus turning it into another useless SEO technique. Keywords in domains, filenames, etc, do nothing now anyway because of the abuse. The SE's simply take it out of the equation and only utilise it for identification now more than anything. Same as the description. It serves no purpose for ranking, but helps to explain at the SERP for click through purposes. Keywords in domains, folders and filenames help this purpose, though people tend to abuse it, thus making it a bad thing towards possible filtering.
Keep It Simple Stupid (K.I.S.S) Principle, and you go further with that than you will trying to get very technical with the SE's now. Even links are about to take a large plunge towards meaning little towards ranking purposes with the SE's currently developing their word clustering technologies at a fast rate. Google have hinted this at the Web 2.0 conference just recently. Anchor text is now abused, so the SE's just change their algo and stuff everyone about so the rankings aren't so tainted. SEO's put relevant sites high for relevant keywords, spammers abuse the techniques and put sites up high for any keyword, regardless of relevance.
Its a vicious circle this SEO thing...
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Reflect
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RE: More Domains for Better Search Results? - 10/12/2004 11:47:56
quote:
No, a sitemap is a good thing, especially in the instance of multiple delimiters. One hypen is fine, two ok, any more and you are most definately pressing your luck with Yahoo, and who knows what is to come from it within the others.
Cool, as I thought it should be.
Thanks for taking the time.
Take care,
Brian
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Anthony Parsons
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RE: More Domains for Better Search Results? - 10/14/2004 7:08:58
Donkey, if it aint broke, then don't fix it. If what you have done is for the user and not the search engines, then you have nothing to worry about. If you use three or more hypens often, then I would possibly change those pages. Images....doesn't matter as they are not an item that affects rankings.
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Reflect
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RE: More Domains for Better Search Results? - 10/14/2004 8:20:55
Donkey,
For researches sake may I ask a favor. See if these items can be found in the SEs.
I looked at this some more and I am not convinced. I see entries in Yahoo and MSN that suggest otherwise.
In my post @ wmw I have not one confirmation, only people shooting it down but the time line stated by AP above suggests Florida update which is almost a year old. I'm still on the fence on this one. I am thinking names within reason are not tossed/buried. obvious spam on this is....IMHO @ this point in time.
Take care,
Brian
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