SEO, Flash and .css (Full Version)

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JoJoAnne -> SEO, Flash and .css (9/27/2004 9:30:12)

I have been presented with a possible redesign. The current website is a gorgeous site, but utilizes flash and cascading style sheets. Problem is, there is no search engine optimization! Client states he has asked for site to be optimized, but previous developer has not gone forward with the optimization and is avoiding the question. At this time, I only create .html files with SEO in mind.

2 Questions:
1. Is it possible to optimize this website as is, or would it be best, taking optimization into consideration, to recreate the site using .html files only?

2. Never having worked with Flash.. will it be possible to link from the .html files to the flash/video files so that client may keep "video" files displaying products and how they work?

I sooo appreciate any opinions and input!
Thanks a bunch.
JoAnne



Giomanach -> RE: SEO, Flash and .css (9/27/2004 9:37:30)

JoAnne

What program are you using to create the Web? FrontPage? Dreamweaver? GoLive? NetFusion? Notepad? etc

Either way, the answer to both questions is Yes, just ensure you doa good job on it[;)]



abbeyvet -> RE: SEO, Flash and .css (9/27/2004 10:08:42)

One possibility would be to offer both a flash and a html version of the site - though I would avoid having a splash page with those choices if SEO matters. Perhaps a prominent link on the home page that people can clcik for the flash version? Or a link where appropriate to a flash demo.

quote:

but utilizes flash and cascading style sheets


In relation to SEO I would not lump these two in together - using CSS gives enormous benefits when you are optimizing for search engines, not least because of the hugely reduced amount of code, but also because of the flexibility it gives to the order in which page elements appear. Whatever about creating a non-flash version, I would certainly not abandon CSS.



Anthony Parsons -> RE: SEO, Flash and .css (9/27/2004 10:26:13)

Abbey hit it on the head JoJo. You can optimize flash, however; the only problem is, is only Google is reading it, and even that is still within development stages. If you ensure the embedded tags and so forth contain good content within the flash file, then Google can read that, but the ultimate solution for flash site is create two distinctive sites as Abbey aluded above:

One for Flash & One for users with slow connections / search engines.

CSS is definately an incremental attribute in SEO. Abbey already keyed the highlights. IMO, you cannot do without CSS in any quality SEO campaign. The more that is external, the better. Tableless design and XHTML is the moving force in the static world now, so if your not up to speed with it, I would get their quick as that is the direction you need to be facing for SEO.

So many people may tell you Google this and Google that, but at the end of the day, the more primitive the site, the more search engine exposure it will attibute as most of the search engines robots are primitive. Google is about the only acception at present, then maybe MSN when they sort there stuff out.



JoJoAnne -> RE: SEO, Flash and .css (9/27/2004 10:29:46)

Thanks so much for your input Dan and Katherine. I am using FrontPage 2003 to create sites, uploading using FTP client, and adjusting and editing code when necessary via Notepad.

We are prepared to present possible client with a new design proposal, creating .html pages in order to optimize to our best ablility, ridding the flash and css. Where we have not worked with style sheets (would like to learn when time permits!), creating .html pages appears to be the best way to go at this time. But we do not want to state that we cannot optimize current site as it uses flash and .css, if it is actually possible. Is it?? [:(]

Staying away from flash and having not provided this service, I assume we will need some script on the server for the flash files to work correctly, yes? They may be moving the site to another server as well.

Thanks again.
JoAnne



Giomanach -> RE: SEO, Flash and .css (9/27/2004 10:39:44)

quote:

Staying away from flash and having not provided this service, I assume we will need some script on the server for the flash files to work correctly, yes? They may be moving the site to another server as well.

Not true, typical FLASH HTML coding for embedding: 

<object width="550" height="400">
<param name="movie" value="somefilename.swf">
<embed src="somefilename.swf" width="550" height="400">
</embed>
</object>

That's the minimum coding that you need, and provided the user has the correct version of FLASH player installed no problems. But, FP can deal with that for you.

quote:

ridding the flash and css.

Getting rid of the FLASH I can understand, as I try to steer my clients away from it as much as possible, but ridding of CSS? That is a must not do if you are looking for total SEO. CSS is not that hard to learn when it's the basics, of which is what you will need for formatting backgrounds and fonts. 30 minutes to an hour a day will have you on your way in no time, first place to start - http://www.w3schools.com

I rely heavily on CSS for formatting, and also for positioning etc. Not only will it help with SEO, but it will allow for faster download times, as there is no need to repeat the <font> tags everytime you need to change font etc.

If you browse here you will find a page created using Tables and CSS. The original is located here. I'm currently removing all JAvaScript from the web, and performing SEO on it. Without the usage of CSS, I would not do so well on the SEs.

quote:

I am using FrontPage 2003 to create sites, uploading using FTP client,

I take it you aren't using the FPSe dependant components? If you are, you will need ot publish rather than FTP

HTH

Dan



JoJoAnne -> RE: SEO, Flash and .css (9/27/2004 11:06:04)

Dan, I do publish with FrontPage when needed, but only when FP components are used. It appears I need to become familiar with .css ASAP! Thank you so much for including more information and links regarding .css!!

I sooo appreciate all your replies. You have been a lot of help.

Sincerely,
JoAnne



abbeyvet -> RE: SEO, Flash and .css (9/27/2004 11:45:40)

quote:

But we do not want to state that we cannot optimize current site as it uses flash and .css, if it is actually possible. Is it??


It is not impossible to optimize a flash site for Google, but it is NOT easy and there is quite a learning curve, and you are still left with the problem of other search engines. So, loose the Flash, at least for the min part of the site.

But in my opinion, as other have stated, it is not truely possible to fully optimize a site without using CSS, at the very least for text formatting but if at all possible for layout also.

The days when getting meta tags right for search engines was all that mattered are well and truly over - most of them all but ignore them now anyway - so anything that presents pages in a search engine friendly way is now more important and CSS is core to doing that.

So again referring to Flash and CSS together when taking about optimization is meaningless as they are pulling in opposite directions.



dpf -> RE: SEO, Flash and .css (9/27/2004 11:53:18)

Joanne: you mentioned Flash - how large is the Flash movie - full screen? For SEo purposes, think of Flash as no different than any image ( i know Flash is quite different from a static image but bear with me here). Traditionally SE's couldnt "see inside" either and thus all the content was invisible to the SE's. That is why everyone stays away from them. However, that is usally when someone makes an entire page with Flash. An oft neglected option is to make a Flash movie that is only a portion of the screen and if the remainder of the scrren has good html content, the page should get good SE results.

To take the css page and go to strict html withourt css is a huge step backward and a disservice to the client.



barry -> RE: SEO, Flash and .css (9/27/2004 20:34:56)

Hi Everybody,

I had a client that insisted on having Flash eyecandy on his home page. I worked in the SEO as best I could and he has been getting really good ratings in the indexes.

Check it out http://www.newhorizonimage.com/

Hope this helps



abbeyvet -> RE: SEO, Flash and .css (9/28/2004 5:04:36)

The problem is not when you have some Flash on a page - as in Barry's example. The problem is when you have an entirely Flash site.



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