Do spiders count code as words in seo? (Full Version)

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Scotty -> Do spiders count code as words in seo? (10/1/2004 0:42:31)

Am I correct that a css layout, by decreasing the amount of code on your page, will increase the keyword count (and possibly raise it further up the page), thus increasing your rating?
If so, is "everybody" moving to css for layout?
Regards, Scotty



Giomanach -> RE: Do spiders count code as words in seo? (10/1/2004 5:41:55)

No it isn't true. The amount of keywords on a page, is defined by the amount of content, not coding.

Having a pure CSS controlled page only allows for faster read of the web by the spiders



abbeyvet -> RE: Do spiders count code as words in seo? (10/1/2004 6:43:14)

quote:

....only allows for faster read of the web by the spiders


Not so. CSS does a lot more than that in assisting with SEO.

1. Yes, by reducing the code it makes reading the page easier for spiders, but also means that the entire page is more likely to be indexed and that it will be easier for the search engines to detect the heirerarchical structure of the page and rank it accordingly.

2. CSS makes it possible to position content pretty much whereever you like in the code without affecting the appearance of the page, so that your important content is higher on the page, which to a search engine means it is more important. For example you can have your header appear on the top of a page, but be at the bottom in the code, which means the opening H1 of your content (very important to search engines) is right at the top.

3. You can often remove images that are used for layout from the code altogehter by using them as background images, which again allows your content to be positioned better.

4. Javascript effects, such as rollovers, can be replaced with search engines friendly links without losing the rollover effect.

5. You can place additional content that is both useful to users and important for increasing keywords for search engines right on the page without cluttering it up, for example by using titles. An example would be, say, adding definitions of words that some users may not know like so:

<span class="define" title="This is a definitions of the BigWord">BigWord</span>

Now if the user mouses over BigWord they see a definition - so do the SEs but you have saved a lot of space on your page.


CSS, like any other technique, can be abused in the the pursuit of SEO, but it is a very important part of any SEO effort for a site.



davids -> RE: Do spiders count code as words in seo? (10/13/2004 11:04:30)

Nice post. I have also wondered, though, whether the SE might think I am spamming if I put white text in a block that is set to black on an external stylesheet, for example?



mortgage_pro_seo -> RE: Do spiders count code as words in seo? (10/17/2004 18:29:54)

abbeyvet good post

davids- If you like that site I would not have any hidden text. Google just released a new bot that has been crawling like crazy. It is thought there will be a new google algorithm soon. You don't want to take a chance and get banned.



BobbyDouglas -> RE: Do spiders count code as words in seo? (10/17/2004 18:45:48)

abbeyvet
- Are you saying at all that having a table design without a separate CSS file sheet woud make you ranked less than someone with tableless XHTML/CSS design?

One other thing, about the making cleaner code for a SE to read faster, what SEs are you talking about? I didn't think clean code made any difference at all.



dpf -> RE: Do spiders count code as words in seo? (10/18/2004 7:48:36)

quote:

davids- If you like that site I would not have any hidden text.
I dont think he was describing "hidden text" which would be white on white - he was describing white text where the black background was called by the external style sheet- in which case it would not be penalized



dpf -> RE: Do spiders count code as words in seo? (10/18/2004 7:49:54)

quote:

For example you can have your header appear on the top of a page, but be at the bottom in the code, which means the opening H1 of your content (very important to search engines) is right at the top.

not to be picky but isnt this backwards? If the header isat the bottom of your code but appears at the top of the page, the spider reads the code not the page as assembled by a browser and viewed by a human.



Spooky -> RE: Do spiders count code as words in seo? (10/18/2004 14:20:24)

The header, as intended by this comment, is best demonstrated imho on Pageoneresults SEO page : http://www.seoconsultants.com/
The top 'header' code is at the bottom of the html page and the opening tag is an H1.



dpf -> RE: Do spiders count code as words in seo? (10/18/2004 14:29:21)

Thanks Spooky- makes sense, I was looking at it backwards, I thiink..lol



CelticDragon -> RE: Do spiders count code as words in seo? (10/24/2004 17:00:39)

sorry, spooky,

I'm having difficulty figuring out what's going on with this one too.... I'm new to CSS and have figured out quite a bit with help from here, but the header bit at the bottom and the h1 at the top doesn't seem to make sense to me...

I had a look at the code on the site you posted but the H1 is at the top of the html page too.... Could you clarify that for me.... pretty please!?[:D]



Giomanach -> RE: Do spiders count code as words in seo? (10/27/2004 8:08:22)

Stephen

What Spooky means is:

The images at the top of the page, the nav etc, the coding for all of that is at the end of the HTML document, and the main body content is the first thing in the body of the HTML document, it goes something like this:

<html>
<head>
<title>Page Title</title>
<link rel="style.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css">
</head>
<body>
<div id="body">
Body Content in here - the stuff SE Spiders like to get their teeth into
</div>
<div id="nav">
Nav in here - The next bit SE Spiders fancy chewing on
</div>
<div id="head">
Head Content in here - The bit that makes the page look pwetty[:D]
</div>
</body>
</html>

Then you can use absolute positioning of CSS to put the header at the top, nav to the left, and content where is should be[;)]



CelticDragon -> RE: Do spiders count code as words in seo? (10/28/2004 3:23:17)

aha!

I think I get it, this isn't using tables as such at all, everything is declared in the css sheet?

Other question about div.... what is it? I'm used to {tr} and the like....

I'm getting to grips with CSS now, but I'm still using Frontpage for the tables, is this not a good idea? I'm also still doing my navigation and footers as MSFP includes, is this also not a good idea?

Thanks



Giomanach -> RE: Do spiders count code as words in seo? (10/28/2004 3:54:04)

quote:

this isn't using tables as such at all, everything is declared in the css sheet?

Tables and DIVs are two very different HTML elements... The Stylesheet, whether it be internal, external or inline, can be used to define either relative or absolute positioning, dependant on the desired/intended design.

quote:

Other question about div.... what is it? I'm used to {tr} and the like....

A DIV is another HTML element. It's what we call a layer element (or at least I do anyway). Tables only allow so much flexibility with the layout (rows and columns), and what can be referred to as a "2D" layout, where, if used properly, you can add that "3rd" dimension to the page with a lot of CSS and the usage of DIV layers

It's complex stuff, but in time you will get to learn it[;)]

You can safely blame Eric Meyer for this lol, he's the one who pushes CSS to it's limits...

quote:

but I'm still using Frontpage for the tables, is this not a good idea? I'm also still doing my navigation and footers as MSFP includes, is this also not a good idea?

I give this advice time and time again - Use what's best for you - not whats best for everyone else - it's as simple as that[;)]



CelticDragon -> RE: Do spiders count code as words in seo? (10/28/2004 4:29:11)

Great, think I get this so far...

Other question about a post up there..... Span... what is that?

That's some way to just have a flyout of a description or what? Can you define what the Span looks like in the CSS? Do you have to go in an code it for each work in the html view or is there a way of doing it in FP?

EDIT: Also, how do you do navigation if not as includes? Do you type each navigation on each page?



Giomanach -> RE: Do spiders count code as words in seo? (10/28/2004 5:24:25)

A Span...these are for adding inline styles, or applying classes to text/images within the document, where it differs from the DIV, Table Cell or Paragraph:

<div id="content">
This is a paragraph, within a DIV layer <span style="font-weight:bold; color: #F00; text-decoration: overline underline;">with a span inline style slapped</span> in the middle of it
</div>

You can use <span> with the attributes style, class and id. But you have to remember - for valid coding - you can only call an ID to one element once, style and class can be applied as many times as you like.

To get a description on the word etc, the easiest way is to use and acronym:

<acronym title="Description of text">Abbreviation</acronym>

For an example of spans etc:
http://server5.crucialdns.com/~giocss

Not sure if FP will do it for you - so I say HTML coding only...[&:]

Anything else?



Giomanach -> RE: Do spiders count code as words in seo? (10/28/2004 5:35:47)

quote:

Also, how do you do navigation if not as includes? Do you type each navigation on each page?

Yeah....which is why you use absolute URL links on includes....saves time...



d a v e -> RE: Do spiders count code as words in seo? (10/28/2004 9:20:30)

quote:

<acronym title="Description of text">Abbreviation</acronym>


that should be 
<abbr title="Description of text">Abbreviation</abbr>

seeing as it's an abbreviation ;)

you can also use something like this 
abbr, acronym {
	border-bottom: 1px dotted #666;
	cursor: help;
}



Giomanach -> RE: Do spiders count code as words in seo? (10/28/2004 9:22:15)

I used Abbreviation as sample text Dave...wasn't literal.....

But anyhoo...that works too[:D]



d a v e -> RE: Do spiders count code as words in seo? (10/28/2004 9:25:21)

just wanted to point out the correct tags for people using abbreviations as opposed to acronyms and i just like to be picky ;)



CelticDragon -> RE: Do spiders count code as words in seo? (11/1/2004 5:43:49)

That's great, could be very useful for explaining words to non native speakers (English Language School site) ...

Do I have to go into each word in the coding and put in the <abbr title = stuff> or can I do it via the link button in FrontPage?

Thanks for all the info on this!



Giomanach -> RE: Do spiders count code as words in seo? (11/1/2004 6:20:07)

AFAIK - FP won't do it for you, so yeah, it's HTML coding only - think DW does it, but not sure...[;)]



pageoneresults -> RE: Do spiders count code as words in seo? (11/3/2004 13:48:50)

Hey Spooky, thanks for the plug on the design. We actually use CSS-P which is Absolute Positioning. We also combine relatively positioned elements within the absolutely positioned elements. Did you get that? ;)



dpf -> RE: Do spiders count code as words in seo? (11/3/2004 13:51:30)

quote:

Did you get that? ;)
relatively, yes.



pageoneresults -> RE: Do spiders count code as words in seo? (11/3/2004 13:53:48)

Here's a pretty good CSS Positioning Tutorial from Brainjar...

CSS Positioning



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