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Best Graphics program??? - 1/21/2001 16:16:00
Hi, I was just curious to see what some of the experts would recommend for a graphics program for a guy on a limited budget. I know Adobe Photoshop is a bit on the expensive side, probably more than I'm willing to spend, but do you have any other suggestions? Thanks a bunch
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Gil
Posts: 7533
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline
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RE: Best Graphics program??? - 1/21/2001 17:04:00
I like Ulead's Photoimpact for a inexpensive one or Paint Shop Pro------------------
Gil Harvey Do Lipton Tea employees take coffee breaks?
Internet Consulting - Web Development
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Nancy
Posts: 3626
Joined: 11/9/1999
From: Nebraska
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RE: Best Graphics program??? - 1/21/2001 17:38:00
Paint Shop Pro will do about 90-95% of what Photoshop will do especially v6 & 7, at about 1/7 of the cost. Not a bad dollar value at all. Usually can be purchased for around $100.
www.jasc.com
Nancy
------------------
Modern Fairy Tale: "And so the prince, determined to find the owner of the glass slipper,launched a home page on the World Wide Web."
Mall of Alliance
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Shirley
Posts: 3127
Joined: 1/8/1999
From: Omaha, Ne USA
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RE: Best Graphics program??? - 1/21/2001 18:04:00
I like Ulead Photo Impact too. You can't beat the features for the price. I use it and Fireworks (my new favorite) most of the time and PSP once in awhile.------------------
Shirley >^..^<
Money Tree Systems
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RE: Best Graphics program??? - 1/21/2001 18:44:00
Wow! I wasn't expecting such a quick response, and such informative ones at that. I think I'll probably go with Paint Shop Pro, that was mentioned in every post so it must be good. I'll also have to check in to Photo Impact and Fireworks. Thanks a ton!
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garyb
Posts: 208
From: North Clarendon Vermont USA
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RE: Best Graphics program??? - 1/21/2001 20:35:00
I love Photoshop but you are right. It is on the hi side if you're buying it for the first time. However, you might try the fireworks demo before you buy anything. It does a great job of graphics and can do slicing, rollovers etc. They offer the fully functional demo for 30 days and it is great if your doing web work only.
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RE: Best Graphics program??? - 1/21/2001 21:28:00
Thanks Garyb. Hmm...so your saying if I'm doing just mainly web graphics I should stick with Fireworks? I'll give that demo a try. Which ones would you say is the easiest for the beginner? I've used Image Composer for awhile now and am ok with that, but not sure I could handle a real graphics program. Thanks once again.
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garyb
Posts: 208
From: North Clarendon Vermont USA
Status: offline
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RE: Best Graphics program??? - 1/22/2001 20:12:00
Well, I'm saying that I know fireworks is great at graphics for the web. I also know that some of my esteemed collegues love PSP which I have never used. IC is good but I don't think it is on the level of fireworks for some of the advanced things it can do. Again, I know fireworks has the free 30 day demo. I think there might be one for PSP as well.
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Marr
Posts: 303
From: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA - GO HUSKERS!!!
Status: offline
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RE: Best Graphics program??? - 1/22/2001 20:29:00
I'm with garyb on this one. Photoshop first - Fireworks second. Photoshop is very pricey - and I'd have to disagree with Nancy about PSP having as much capability. Sorry Nancy! You know I love and respect you! ![]("http://www.frontpagewebmaster.com/ubb/smile.gif") I choose Fireworks second as it very web graphics minded and easily optimizes your images for the web. It's also very easy to use and integrate. Marr ------------------
Marrianne Williams
OutFront News
Stu Reilly Design
DreamweaverSites.com
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RE: Best Graphics program??? - 1/22/2001 20:00:00
Is Photoshop pretty tough to learn though? I mean, costing that much you wouldn't think of it for the simplicity. And how about Fireworks? How long would that take to learn? Thanks guys, this place is great!
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Bonnie
Posts: 9
From: St. Matthews, SC, USA
Status: offline
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RE: Best Graphics program??? - 1/22/2001 13:02:00
Photoshop is pricey. There is a reason for that...it does so many things. If you are consistent in your efforts and have some good books, it is not difficult to learn. I personally started learning Photoshop about 4 months ago and feel as though I am quite proficient with it now. Of course, I have had tremendous help and support. If you are looking to add part-time work to yourself, you may want to consider a less expensive and less time-consuming route. Personally, I love working with Photoshop.
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Goober
Posts: 1156
From: Pennsylvania USA
Status: offline
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RE: Best Graphics program??? - 1/22/2001 15:24:00
I've had Fireworks for a few months and really like it.Marr is an expert, has worked with graphics programs for some time, and it came easily to her. I am fairly new to this kind of thing and still have a lot to learn. I haven't worked my way through the instruction books I'm using, yet, and still refer to them often. How quickly you learn will depend on many things, among them, how much prior experience you have and how much time you spend with it, etc. We have different learning styles and natural penchants for things, too. There are things I especially enjoy doing in Fireworks, and one of them is optimizing graphics.
Sandy ------------------
www.alleghenyweb.com
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Larry J
Posts: 15
From: None
Status: offline
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RE: Best Graphics program??? - 1/22/2001 17:06:00
Adobe's Photoshop LE (Limited Edition) is pretty good for web graphics. It has the same look & feel as Photoshop, but is only around $100.LE isn't as robust as its big brother, but what can we expect at a sixth of the price! Some LE limitations are:
LE only uses RGB color. This meanse that you can't use CMYK or reliably create anything that will be professionally printed. But if you're using it only for web graphics, RGB is pretty much all you need. LE doesn't have a History option. This option lets you revert to previous file "states." If you made a mistake a few steps back, you can essentially go back and unapply the changes. LE doesn't allow you to create macros. This capability will allow you to save time on repetitive formatting issues. LE does not support editable type, which is a major time saver. Once you enter some text, it's rasterized and set in stone. A nice feature of the new Paint Shop Pro is that it supports editable type. LE does not support vector images. Once again, it depends on how much you use these types of images, which are frequently used in print media. PSP supports vector graphics to a certain extent, though not as well as Adobe Illustrator or Photoshop. Photoshop LE offers a lot of bang for the buck. I'd rank on the same level as Paint Shop Pro. Each program does certain things better than the other, so it's your choice. I will say that LE's interface will get you up to speed on Photoshop and acts as a very effecive stepping stone to the full product, should you ever decide to go there.
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garyb
Posts: 208
From: North Clarendon Vermont USA
Status: offline
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RE: Best Graphics program??? - 1/22/2001 18:37:00
One of the most important items missing in the LE version and which makes it far inferior to Fireworks is its lack of support for layers. Layers is the king when it comes to working in complex images. Photoshop is great at it but again, at a huge price. Fireworks handles it and can even import photoshop files and keep the layers. I use Photoshop everyday, love it but still would recommend fireworks for web only graphics due to cost and learning curve. Because photoshop is so powerful, it is a step learning curve. Of course, Marr, myself and others love it so if you decided to go that route, we're always here to help...
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Larry J
Posts: 15
From: None
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RE: Best Graphics program??? - 1/22/2001 20:36:00
Layer functionality is present in LE. It's not as elaborate as it is in Photoshop, but it's there (and I totally agree that layers are crucial . . . if the app doesn't support layers, don't even bother with it).I've never used Fireworks before, but I hear nothing but great things about it. I'll have to give that one a shot some time soon. Check out the feature comparison for LE vs. the Full version of Photoshop.
http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshople/comparison.html
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Michael45
Posts: 68
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
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RE: Best Graphics program??? - 1/22/2001 23:40:00
Hi Everyone
I thought I would maybe pop a sugestion in here.
FP2000 comes with image composer and themes. I was thinking if you grab the images from 'themes' and take them into Image Composer and change them around a bit you have made a web site that is unique and you have not spent anymore money.
Michael45
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barusiec
Posts: 79
From: AZ USA
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RE: Best Graphics program??? - 1/25/2001 20:30:00
Well, I might be going out on a limb here 'cuz I don't know diddly about any graphics program other than Image Composer. Two reasons why I don't know diddley is becuase I tried to learn Paint Shop and couldn't get the hang of it. (Got a tutorial book for sale if anybody wants it cheap). Second, and more important, I have never met a graphics challenge I could not conquer using IC. I used to view IC as inferior just because it was an add-in to FP and becuase I didn't know the program that well. But, thanks to the good folks on this forum and some other tips&tricks sites out there, I have come to love the program and have been able to some really cool, really profressional looking graphics with it such as the ones seen at the following locations:http://hrfree.com/test/apex
http://hrfree.com/designs/welcome.htm
http://hrfree.com/test/lindas.htm
http://hrfree.com/test/azgift.htm
http://hrfree.com/test/tabs.htm Hope it helps.
------------------
Bruce "Those who never get carried away, should be." - Malcom Forbes
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garyb
Posts: 208
From: North Clarendon Vermont USA
Status: offline
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RE: Best Graphics program??? - 1/25/2001 23:01:00
Good point Bruce, No one is saying that you cannot do anything with any of the programs out there and certainly IC can do anything you need to do. However, the key is in the statement you made that says
[have never met a graphics challenge I could not conquer using IC. ]
I have used other programs in the past and could say the same thing. However, Being able to do things and doing them easily are sometimes quite different. There are certain tasks that things like layers, etc make seamless which saves me huge amounts of times. If I can do a task in 1 minute vs 10 minutes, it really adds up over a period of time. Again, I am impressed with what IC can do but there are things that other programs can do faster and easier.
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showthem
Posts: 11
From: Omaha, NE USA
Status: offline
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RE: Best Graphics program??? - 1/25/2001 13:06:00
Bruce,<P>I'm with you on PSP. I had it for years, and couldn't get it to do what I wanted it to. I got Fireworks, worked with it a while (love it!), got semi-proficient with it, and now PSP makes a lot more sense. I found the concepts easier to learn in Fireworks, and those concepts allowed me to become more proficient with PSP.<P>I now use them both, for different things. I have a tendency to create with Fireworks, and edit with PSP. But stay with it, and it will eventually come.<P>For that first purchase, though, Fireworks is incredible!
< Message edited by BobbyDouglas -- 2/6/2006 1:25:10 >
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RE: Best Graphics program??? - 1/25/2001 18:00:00
So much info, sooo many prgrams! From the looks of things, Fireworks will probably be my first choice seeing as it was recommended to me by the majority of the people here. This place is great! Thomas Brunt, you did an excellant with outfront.net and I'll be recommending to all my friends. Thanks!
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nowlkldy
Posts: 1393
From: Topeka, Kansas
Status: offline
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RE: Best Graphics program??? - 1/25/2001 21:02:00
I've been reading these posts for the past few days now and it's time I put in my two cents:
I've been trying for several months to get the hang of this $*%#@&^ PSP (6 and 7) and it's just not coming. Sorry Nancy, but it is the most frustrating thing I've ever worked with. Showthem, I might follow your experience and get Fireworks to see if I can learn it and then maybe grasp PSP.
Photoshop is out of the question. Adobe is just too darn proud of all their stuff.
Photo Impact might be nice if it wasn't so buggy and you didn't get five different answers to the same question from their support staff. (I finally gave up and chucked it).
Image Composer just seems to fall into place so easy--I really enjoy using it.Whewwww. Thanks guys. Now that I've vented I feel a lot better and I just realized where all that money I've spent the past few months has gone. Now I'm off to the Fireworks store ![]("http://www.frontpagewebmaster.com/ubb/confused.gif") Dave
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showthem
Posts: 11
From: Omaha, NE USA
Status: offline
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RE: Best Graphics program??? - 1/26/2001 20:29:00
Dave,<P>You might check and see if Fireworks has a student discount. It's my understanding that if you have a student using the software, you can get the student version. Supposedly, the student version is a full version, just tagged for academic use. Microsoft has this available on many of their programs, and I think Macromedia does too.<P>Something to think about.<P>Greg
< Message edited by BobbyDouglas -- 2/6/2006 1:25:00 >
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Marr
Posts: 303
From: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA - GO HUSKERS!!!
Status: offline
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RE: Best Graphics program??? - 1/26/2001 20:55:00
Hi all,Macromedia does have an educational discount - but I think it is just for Teachers. It's worth a look though because the discount is substantial. I totally agree that Photoshop is way too expensive. However, it is a matter of supply and demand. If you want to land a job as a graphics designer with a decent firm and salary someday - Photoshop will be required. We can debate the value of different programs all day long - but that is the bottom line. Having said that - I realize that is not a goal for everyone - but something to consider. Marr ------------------
Marrianne Williams
OutFront News
Stu Reilly Design
DreamweaverSites.com [This message has been edited by Marr (edited 01-26-2001).]
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Goober
Posts: 1156
From: Pennsylvania USA
Status: offline
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RE: Best Graphics program??? - 1/26/2001 20:19:00
If you are a student or teacher you can find some pretty good discounts at this site: http://www.journeyed.com/
Sandy ------------------
www.alleghenyweb.com
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RE: Best Graphics program??? - 1/31/2001 19:37:00
OK...Once again I am at a crossroad. I wasn't sure whether to go with Fireworks or PhotoShop and when I was browsing eBay I saw some incredibly discounted prices on Photoshop 6.0, and some even lower prices on 5.5. The discounted ones are new in box (at least that is what the description says...) but at a savings of up to $300. Maybe I should just spend the money and but Photoshop. I am still not quite sure. Thanks for all the help.
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Nancy
Posts: 3626
Joined: 11/9/1999
From: Nebraska
Status: offline
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RE: Best Graphics program??? - 1/31/2001 19:49:00
Making that decision might be easier if you 'look at the big picture'. How much do you intend to use the program? Your comment in the first post was 'on a limited budget'. To many people that would rule out Photoshop. I know it did for me. On the other hand, if I had known just how much I would eventually use a graphics program, I probably would have found the money somewhere. As with most things in life, it isn't just the dollars you might shell out, if you aren't really going to make use of the product. That of course is a decision only you can make. Some people like to have 'toys' at any cost regardless of how much they use them. Edit: I am not implying any of the graphics programs are toys, and especially not Photoshop. But any of the choices could be in that category if your purpose is to just play around with graphics some. Nancy ------------------
Modern Fairy Tale: "And so the prince, determined to find the owner of the glass slipper,launched a home page on the World Wide Web."
Mall of Alliance [This message has been edited by Nancy (edited 01-31-2001).]
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Have Fun Bill
Posts: 4
From: abington,pa
Status: offline
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RE: Best Graphics program??? - 2/1/2001 20:07:00
With the opportunity to download 30 day trials of just about every app out there you shouldn't spend a dime just yet. As a regular user of well over 10 different graphics apps I'll disagree with most in this thread and state:For a 1st dive into computer graphics the best program is the one that you feel most comfortable with. Test drive a few, get a feel for the interface and the different tools and then do a search for online tutorials to see if it's a fit. Once you learn and get proficient at one app you'll be able to move onto the next that much easier because you'll have a good grasp of the basics. Don't fall into the trap of you'll out grow it and wish you bought so and so. By the time most people master a program there's an upgrade anyway. There are longtime users like myself of programs like photoshop who are still learning everyday. I'm not here to argue the merits of one app over the other. If you're good MS Paint will do the trick, if not photoshop or draw won't help a lick. All I will say is there are a lot of PS, PSP and PP programs sitting on hardrives collecting cyberdust because the purchaser was just too overwhelmed when they opened it up and really didn't have the time or patience it takes to master them. They had no idea what they were getting into and bought something on the advice of some zealot who thinks what he or she uses is the only app of merit and all the rest are wannabees. (I use the term zealot because I've been called that many a time on the MS boards where IC is concerned. It wasn't meant to attack anyone here.) I guarantee you that you will produce much better results with the app that you feel most comfortable with than with the best app. ------------------
Have Fun Bill
Fun With PhotoDraw II
Fun With Image Composer
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RE: Best Graphics program??? - 2/2/2001 20:19:00
In every good mechanics tool box you will always find sets of tools, and not just one or two that will do every job. The key may be, to know each of your tools well and for which is best used for. Add to your set as you go along and as needed and can afford. Never abandon a good tool until it becomes obsolete or a total failure. Your learning curve will go on for the rest of your life, every tool that you master will benefit you...It may not hold true that one thing is always better than another thing. Nearly All tools are good tools in their own way!
Well thats my 2 cents worth.
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Guest
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RE: Best Graphics program??? - 2/2/2001 20:24:00
I hate to censor, but I don't allow links to porno sites, and I don't allow links to sites that promote sofware cracks.Sorry! [This message has been edited by Thomas Brunt (edited 02-02-2001).]
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Gil
Posts: 7533
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline
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RE: Best Graphics program??? - 2/2/2001 20:46:00
quote:
Originally posted by DOn't buy it!:
xxxxxxxxx<--They're all free
I don't believe promoting illegal activity is in the best intrest of this forum - would a graphics Mod please delete this message. ------------------
Gil Harvey If lawyers are disbarred and clergymen defrocked, doesn't it follow
that electricians can be delighted, musicians denoted, and dry cleaners
depressed? Internet Consulting - Web Development [This message has been edited by Thomas Brunt (edited 02-02-2001).] [This message has been edited by Thomas Brunt (edited 02-02-2001).]
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