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lambert321
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ALT test and mozilla firefox - 12/3/2004 7:23:06
Does Mozilla Firefox not support ALT text. I can't get it MF to show ALT text for images when I publish.
Thanks,
lambert321
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Giomanach
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RE: ALT test and mozilla firefox - 12/3/2004 7:26:38
Add the title attribute for that to work.
They do support it, it's used for displaying text when the image can't be found
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lambert321
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RE: ALT test and mozilla firefox - 12/3/2004 7:40:02
thanks dan. quick response, too.
L321
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d a v e
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RE: ALT test and mozilla firefox - 12/3/2004 8:35:45
...or when the image is not displayed (e.g. the users is browsing with images turned off, or they are they using a screen reader to read the page to them.
IE incorrectly displays the alt text as a tooltip.
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ou812
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RE: ALT test and mozilla firefox - 12/3/2004 12:14:23
Ah, I didn't know the alt was just for missing images and IE was displaying incorrectly. I was wondering why FF wasn't displaying them. Thanks!
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AMysticWeb
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RE: ALT test and mozilla firefox - 12/3/2004 18:18:07
Hi Lambert321,
One of the reasons alt is used is so screen readers for the visually impaired are alerted to your image content.
If you want the little tool tip to show up in browsers other than IE, try adding title="show text"
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Kitka
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RE: ALT test and mozilla firefox - 12/3/2004 22:18:21
Lambert,
There is an extension for FF/Mozilla you can download, called Popup Alt Attributes. It makes ALT attributes function the same way as they do in that other buggy browser.
Web designers have been using the ALT attribute for popups for far longer than the newish "title" attribute has been available, and "title" is very widely under-used, plus using both ALT and TITLE bulks out the code.
There is quite an interesting argument about it in the Mozilla Extension Room http://extensionroom.mozdev.org/more-info/popupalt
Of course installing the extension will only make it functional for you, lots of other users of FF/Mozilla will be totally unaware the extension is available.
HTH.
< Message edited by Kitka -- 12/4/2004 3:47:50 >
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d a v e
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RE: ALT test and mozilla firefox - 12/4/2004 2:25:29
Kitka - although title attribute has been only recently been getting 'widespread' use it has been around since at least html 3.2 and no doubt before that.
quote:
using both ALT and TITLE bulks out the code. really that much? :)
'title' is also a suggested technique for meeting WCAG 513.1 http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/wai-pageauth.html#tech-meaningful-links.
Lambert I would use title attribute for further explanations of the pictures rather than relying on the only the alt tag: there's some good stuff here on using alt and title for images
http://joeclark.org/book/sashay/serialization/Chapter06.html
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Kitka
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RE: ALT test and mozilla firefox - 12/4/2004 3:12:32
quote:
... it has been around since at least html 3.2 and no doubt before that.
Um, I could be wrong, but my impression is that it was only introduced with HTML 4.0.
quote:
really that much? :)
Depends on how many graphics you have on the page and how descriptive you are. Think of a gallery page with 25-50 thumbnails. "The sun rising over the ocean, from Lindeman Island, Great Barrier Reef, Australia" repeated twice (as both alt and title), and then added to similar descriptions for all thumbnails on the page, will definitely impact on the overall size of the page.
Personally, I can't see any need for having both attributes for img, when one would suffice for the two purposes.
quote:
'title' is also a suggested technique for meeting WCAG 513.1
Agreed - I did not suggest it should not be used.
My primary intention was to mention the Popup Alt Attributes extension for FireFox/Mozilla, which I have found extremely helpful. Until I started using FF as my default browser, I hadn't realised how many web pages rely on the Alt tag for popups and I missed that functionality terribly in certain situations.
It will take an amazing campaign (or length of time) to convince and convert most web designers to seeing that they need the "title" attribute as well as "alt". And in the interim, I am very happy I found the FF extension 
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**It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.**
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d a v e
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RE: ALT test and mozilla firefox - 12/4/2004 3:25:51
yep it's always being caught between the 'what should be done' (i.e. ignoring the way IE uses alt as opposed to the standards implementation) and what actually happens. but then using title too means you can have your cake and eat it. in yor example i would imageine say a couple of kb extra, which you could save by a little more careful optimisation of images - i just don't think it's a huge sacrifice for the functionality it provides.
it's in my html 3.20 spec handbook...
agreed it will take a long time, but in the meantime it would be better if designers used both as and when necessary anyway rather than relying on just using alt. i think that as Accessibility becomes more and more highlighted it will soon become more widespread so why not start doing it now anyway?
i think that however useful the firefox extension is it is a bit bad IMO for catering to the weaknesses of sites relying on IE misinterpretations, though i can see its real world usefulness. personally i think those few extra bytes per image is well worth it in terms of the cross browser benefits.
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Kitka
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RE: ALT test and mozilla firefox - 12/4/2004 3:42:31
quote:
it's in my html 3.20 spec handbook...
Respectfully, the W3C do not list "title" as a valid attribute in the HTML 3.20 specs for the "img" tag. See:
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html32#img
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**It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.**
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d a v e
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RE: ALT test and mozilla firefox - 12/4/2004 4:15:32
seems to be only in the link...
<!--================== The Anchor Element =================================-->
<!ELEMENT A - - (%text)* -(A)>
<!ATTLIST A
name CDATA #IMPLIED -- named link end --
href %URL #IMPLIED -- URL for linked resource --
rel CDATA #IMPLIED -- forward link types --
rev CDATA #IMPLIED -- reverse link types --
title CDATA #IMPLIED -- advisory title string --
>
strange... unless it's because you can use it with (almost) any element?? maybe it's not explicitly stated because it can be used for anything?
well i guess the W3c spec is definitive :) butmaybe it's just not 'mentioned' explicitly and that's why it is mentioned in my 'O'reilly HTML the definitive guide'
well it's still a bit unclear then but if it wasn't in the 3.20 spec the i apologise for asserting it! :)
i still think you should preferably use alt and title when appropriate though (huh not saying i do all the time;)
thanks for checking the spec!
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d a v e
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RE: ALT test and mozilla firefox - 12/6/2004 11:34:54
since html 4 at least it can be applied to virtually any element...
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