Please be patient... (Full Version)

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Nicole -> Please be patient... (12/7/2004 21:01:11)

.....for my CSS questions will appear really dumb until i get a grip of it okay.

I'm more than likely going to be given the job of redesigning a website i created for a client about 2 years ago, long before i knew hardly anything about better web design practices.

The site currently has 713 pages, and we're planning to combine a lot of pages leaving a total of around 300. This time i'm planning to do it correctly, and am planning to use CSS.

My basic question regarding CSS is: Once i've attached the master CSS to the new webpage html, can i cut and paste the text from the original website straight into the new webpage and by doing so will the CSS take over the text formatting?

Subsequent question: Do i have to then go into the html for each of the 300 individual pages and enter <h1> and </> before and after each piece of text that i'd like to appear different to the rest of the text? Like paragraph headings for instance?

I realise i'm probably not using the correct CSS terms at this stage but i'm waiting for a book i have ordered to arrive this Friday. I ask these questions because i have to submit a quote for the redesign, and if it were a matter of cutting and pasting each page it may take me 5 minutes per page, but if i had to do anything else to the new page as mentioned, it could mean 6 or 7 or even 15 minutes per page and blow my whole quote right out of the water.

Thanks

Nicole



jaybee -> RE: Please be patient... (12/8/2004 4:37:23)

Ummm, OK, not simple on a revamp. It's better if you're starting from scratch. However

The css will take over but you have this thing known as a cascade. What that means is that styles applied to individual items take precedence over internal style definitions and they take precedence over external styles.

so if you have a line <table width="100%" bgcolor="#eeeeee"> that will override any styles defined elsewhere.

So, when you copy the text in you have to make sure it doesn't bring any formatting with it or got through and remove all the style info.

If your lines aren't already defined as heading then yes, you'll have to go through and do <h1>s

Also, it depends on what you've set up in your styles as to whether you'll need to go through and add class or id tags eg <p class="smallboldpara">



jaybee -> RE: Please be patient... (12/8/2004 4:43:14)

As to your quote, as it's your first css site you have two options

Double it at least or look on it as a learning exercise and tell the client you'll charge her the normal rate but you want more time to get it right.

It's going to depend a lot on the complexity of the site and how similar the pages are. If you have a load of same layouts then it's fairly straightforward to do one and then just do replces on the others. If they're all different then

See you around Easter! [:D]



caz -> RE: Please be patient... (12/8/2004 5:02:41)

What could help with this is Notetab. The free version is pretty good. When doing something similar I take each page into Notetab, where I can strip the existing inline styles, other html tags, but preserving any urls. Of course, you are then left with plain text which you have to mark up in line with your new css. You can also add your doc type here before you take it back into your html editor.

There are a lot of other features in Notetab too - it's worth a try and just might speed up the process for you.

Doing a project like this does mean that you become more closely aquainted with html than you may have been before. [;)]



jaybee -> RE: Please be patient... (12/8/2004 5:47:00)

quote:

Doing a project like this does mean that you become more closely aquainted with html than you may have been before.


[sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif] and some!

Found this, I've downloaded the windows version to see what it does. Looks quite handy as it seems to give you options as to what you strip rather than just sticking the lot into plain text. http://www.apimac.com/ct/



jaybee -> RE: Please be patient... (12/8/2004 5:51:48)

quote:

my CSS questions will appear really dumb


No dumber than everyone else who is starting out with css. It's a bit of a learning curve due to the different browsers but you'll get there.



d a v e -> RE: Please be patient... (12/8/2004 7:58:06)

as an editor that's free you might find topstyle lite very helpful

http://www.bradsoft.com/download/index.asp



caz -> RE: Please be patient... (12/8/2004 8:08:01)

apimac looks good too - the price is keen if you want to register. I particularly like this:

quote:

# Reverse text. Reverses characters.
# Reverses each word.
# Reverses words.


Could make using the Gorilla reverse spambot technique a little easier to do[8|]
[:D]



caz -> RE: Please be patient... (12/8/2004 8:11:36)

Topstyle can be integrated with Notetab - just for info. I should have mentioned it above[;)]



c1sissy -> RE: Please be patient... (12/8/2004 10:26:52)

Would you mind letting us know what book you ordered? If you are going to do this and do it the right way, make sure you have a book that is going to guide you and that you are going to understand.



Nicole -> RE: Please be patient... (12/8/2004 14:32:41)

Thanks everyone for your responses so far, looks like i have some work to do huh?

In responses to some other questions in this thread, the book i have on order is HTML 4 for the World Wide Web with XHTML and CSS Visual Quickstart Guide or H4FTWWWWXACSSVQG for short lol! Jaybee recommended this book to me a few weeks ago.

The website i'm updating will have only 2 page layouts, one for the opening page which will have a lot of "welcome" information and general info in it, the other being for every other page within the site, with the same banner & Menu bar (Xara Webstyle 4, which i've also just purchased), a left side menu and a footer the same as the opening page. (I was plannning to use shared borders, please let me know if this isn't a good idea or there's a better way). So the information i'm going to have to cut and paste will only be paragraph upon paragraph of text. There'll be occasional headings within that text and the occasional link. No pictures, this is a very information dense site.

I'll take a look at Notetab and the other sites you've all provided me with, but i'd first like to get the hang of CSS using this book.

As for the quote and the things Jaybee mentions, well i've always been of the opinion that i should only charge for the time it would take a competent designer to do what i have to do. Or at least someone better. Unless of course the client asked for a specific piece of software to be used that i didn't know how to use.

I used to be a Social Worker at this place and towards the end of working there i took over and updated their site and all up i guess i've been paid around $10,000 for it. They've been good to me at other times too especially when i suffered Social Worker burnout and went nuts and left lol! So i really do want to look after them too. I've been invited to their Xmas party but don't think i'll have the time to attend, but it would also be excellent PR.

I realise this is more a Web Business topic but i'll type it here also, I need the money so i need to charge them what it's worth, yet i also don't want to charge too much and cut myself off from them. I don't know what they've budgetted for this work, or even if they have, but it's strange when i inform them that they can save money by changing web host etc, they tell me that in the grand scheme of things the $140 per year saving isn't important. I will be impressing upon them the accessibility side of things, which should be very important for a community service, but up until i impressed upon them the importance of a "terms of use" and "privacy policy" the other day, they've not had one, despite me emailing them monthly at least about the importance of this for a community service.

Anyway, Thanks again for all your help.

Nicole



dpf -> RE: Please be patient... (12/8/2004 14:55:28)

Nicole ; I posted a few months ago on a thread about "non-profits" that not all non profits ( or social services agencies) are broke. I maintain 3 for a company that has a $14million annual budget. I charge $30 /hr to work from home and they think its great... you might od something like that... they put a cap on # hrs per week to protect their budget .win.win



Nicole -> RE: Please be patient... (12/8/2004 15:10:44)

Hi Dan,

I forgot to add that if given the job i'll have a deadline of the end of February.

What you say is true, but also not true to an extent, here in Australia at least. Depending upon the Government of the day and whatever crisis has occurred lately, for instance conservative governments will always favour family oriented services over the Gay/Lesbian/sexual health areas for instance. I also know some community services that can't spend all the money they have each financial year, and others that have to rely on donations and raffles to buy kitchenware for their refuges etc.

Back to the topic though, i've only started charging my normal rate for this client, having completed their last website in only June this year at a rate $10 per hour less than my normal rate. I also understand about doing community service clients on the cheap, and how it can provide more work than one can handle through word-of-mouth referrals as Summer always tells me, but being an extremely minor group in the community, and from having worked there 2 years, i know that there's not much work through word-of-mouth from this organisation.

Anyway, this part of the thread should move to another board i guess, i'll search for the thread you're talking about.

Thanks

Nicole



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