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dsulvett
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argument about frontpage2003 - 12/16/2004 13:30:25
stupid question, i know, but here in work there is a person who says you really cant do a first class professional website in FP2003.
i say wrong, you CAN....they said show me one...can anyone direct me to some really professional FP only websites...
sorry with the stupid question...
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dsulvett
Posts: 92
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RE: argument about frontpage2003 - 12/16/2004 14:31:21
quote:
ORIGINAL: Spooky
Give the ignorant fool a paintbrush.
Tell him its the same one Da Vinci used. Now paint a copy of the Mona Lisa.
Some people will never be convinced.......
you got it!
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Nicole
Posts: 2854
Joined: 9/15/2004
From: Nambucca / Kempsey, Australia
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RE: argument about frontpage2003 - 12/16/2004 14:43:23
Hi Guys,
Can i just say i agree with you all on everything you've said so far, but, and there's always one....
...I was in a meeting the other day (and it's happened many times before), with a potential client, me as the web designer and another person as a former IT person and in this project is for some reason working in a consultancy role. The usual question of "which program do i use to create websites", and so i say FrontPage. The usual response was received "Have you used Dreamweaver, it's much better".
With what you've said already in this thread, this kind of conversation in front of a potential client is potentially damaging to me as a designer trying to get work. The client knows nothing of course, and any response to the dreamweaver topic is only going to make me look like a smart ass.
Nicole
p.s. This "consultant" produced a Powerpoint version of a navigation structure for the proposed website, i must admit planning of this nature for a huge site is not my forte, but i did make mention (in front of them both), that this planning could've been all done in frontpage.
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dsulvett
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RE: argument about frontpage2003 - 12/16/2004 14:46:30
quote:
ORIGINAL: Nicoleoz
Hi Guys,
Can i just say i agree with you all on everything you've said so far, but, and there's always one....
...I was in a meeting the other day (and it's happened many times before), with a potential client, me as the web designer and another person as a former IT person and in this project is for some reason working in a consultancy role. The usual question of "which program do i use to create websites", and so i say FrontPage. The usual response was received "Have you used Dreamweaver, it's much better".
With what you've said already in this thread, this kind of conversation in front of a potential client is potentially damaging to me as a designer trying to get work. The client knows nothing of course, and any response to the dreamweaver topic is only going to make me look like a smart ass.
Nicole
p.s. This "consultant" produced a Powerpoint version of a navigation structure for the proposed website, i must admit planning of this nature for a huge site is not my forte, but i did make mention (in front of them both), that it could be done in frontpage.
so i guess its not so stupid of a question.....
frontpage has a stigma that goes along with it...it is unfortunate...
i like frontpage, i dont love it....but i like it better than dreamweaver. so, since im pretty new to web developing, i guess i really need to "see" some first class websites, maybe then i will be able to post a better argument.
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dsulvett
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RE: argument about frontpage2003 - 12/16/2004 15:11:32
you may be correct
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dpf
Posts: 7126
Joined: 11/12/2003
From: India-napolis
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RE: argument about frontpage2003 - 12/16/2004 17:30:34
so many good points..starting with the "its a tool" - Ive used DaVinci's paint brush and I guarantee you its crap and i have the paintings to prove it!
this point by bobby
quote:
Frontpage can (and often does) result in poorly designed sites, because you don't need any skills to use it. may get to the heart of the matter. i started by doing html in notepad but then wanted a wysiwyg for 2 reasons: 1. speed - my html skills were weak 2. it provided functionality i had not yet learned. at that point, i was like many - not sure how far i was going with all this so..spend $150 for fp2000 or $500 for dw? well what beginner wouldnt pick the $150. so for that reason, fp is in the hands of a higher % of novices whereas dreamweaver isnt. I just finished a course in DW MX 2004 and its incredible but.... i stopped fp at fp2002 - havent upgraded to 2003 so i cant give an apples to plles (latest to latest) comparison and i suspect nearly all voters are in the same bag - havent thoroughly used most recent versions at same time.
i do know that fp 98 wrote some pretty crappy code and i suspect that is also part of the origin.
to nicole's post - i have encountered that. frankly , i wouls suggest you simply say "I use whatever tool seems to be the best fit and tell them that DW is one that you use"
given this bias, it is probably wise to remove the fp meta tags in sites ( i still have it in a few sites i havent had time to touch in a few years..lol)
personally, i do think DW is better but..... i have a friend who lives in the Adirondak mountains and makes furniture by hand..all hand tools and I would put his elegant, stylish creations up againnst any full powered woodworker on the block. there are people who post here (vets and rookies) who make some wonderful sites with FP.
<edit> here is another thought: looks at spooky's "diet" the DRW produces bloated asp code but..here you have an expert asp programmer who shows you how to simply remove the bloat. i took an asp couse this fall and at the end of the book, they discussed fp and dw (both of which can write asp) they took the same exercise to both and guess what? while DW's code was sleeker the FP's, the author showed via his own hand written solution that DW still took the long way aroud. even bloated code doesnt really impact download times as much as a single un-optimized image will. when everyone was on 9600 baud dial ups, it was a bigger issue.
you like FP? then tell everyone to buz off - or better yet, show them how good a tool it is in your hands!
< Message edited by dpf -- 12/16/2004 17:37:43 >
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Dan
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