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johnanthonygroup
Posts: 78
From: Arlington, Massachusetts
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Fonts in Browsers - 1/3/2005 7:18:39
Can you clarify something for me?
I design using verdana size 10 font and have been using that for the last two years. What has changed that makes most of the people that view the site see it in times new roman size 10?
I know you can change internet explorer to use verdana when you see the site on your machine, but I don't remeber this issue being so prevelant in the past.
How do I resolve the problem?
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Tony Holowitz
John Anthony Group
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www.tonytheteacher.com
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johnanthonygroup
Posts: 78
From: Arlington, Massachusetts
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RE: Fonts in Browsers - 1/3/2005 8:02:27
I'd like to add something. My own web page, www.johnanthonygroup.com uses verdana 10. However, the links on the top of the page showup as times new roman.
Why?
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Tony Holowitz
John Anthony Group
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Charles W Davis
Posts: 1725
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RE: Fonts in Browsers - 1/3/2005 9:42:13
Tony,
quote:
<font color="#C32500" size="1">|</font><font color="#EEF3F7" size="1"> </font></font>
Throughout your navigation html there are excessive end font tags. In the quote, one finds start/end start/end/end.
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d a v e
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RE: Fonts in Browsers - 1/3/2005 13:14:46
you haven't defined the font for the links at the top so they default to the, er, default font - which on many machines is TNR. have a look at css and sort out a whole page in a few lines...
http://www.w3schools.com/css/default.asp
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David Prescott
Gekko web design
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johnanthonygroup
Posts: 78
From: Arlington, Massachusetts
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RE: Fonts in Browsers - 1/3/2005 13:56:39
I solved the problem, yet I know there is a better solution.
I set the default font in FP to verdana 10. This works fine when IE is set to use verdana as the default font. However, IE set to times new roman sees just that.
I simply opened one of the pages and did a test (which drives me nuts about Frontpage). I selected all the text and changed it to arial and then I immediately changed it back to verdana, saved and republished.
Problem solved.
IS a verdana css the answer.
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Tony Holowitz
John Anthony Group
www.johnanthonygroup.com
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dpf
Posts: 7126
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From: India-napolis
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RE: Fonts in Browsers - 1/3/2005 14:04:43
quote:
IS a verdana css the answer.
as dave indicated - yes but see also his point:
quote:
you haven't defined the font for the links at the top so they default to the, er, default font the code below illustrates his point
<td height="23" bgcolor="#E8E8E8" bordercolor="#0099CC">
<p align="left"><span style="letter-spacing: 2px"><b>
<font size="1"> </font>
<font color="#EEF3F7" size="1"><a href="webfolio.htm">
<font size="1"><span style="text-decoration: none">Webfolio</span></font></a></font><font size="1">
<font color="#C32500" size="1">|</font><font color="#EEF3F7" size="1"> </font></font>
<font color="#EEF3F7" size="1"><a href="contact_us.htm">
<font size="1">
<span style="text-decoration: none">Contact Us</span></font> if you are going to define fonts without css, you need to do it everywhere
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Dan
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johnanthonygroup
Posts: 78
From: Arlington, Massachusetts
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RE: Fonts in Browsers - 1/3/2005 14:27:21
I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but I don't care about code.
In fact, I've always wished there were two sides to this forum: the code and the non-code. It is my feeling that FP is designed for people like me and most likely a nusiance for people that know code.
99% of the time I get along fine and there is so much I want to learn about that I've made a decision that I can't be bothered with code.
Some of the things posted make no sense to me and I'm OK with that.
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Tony Holowitz
John Anthony Group
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www.tonytheteacher.com
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d a v e
Posts: 4194
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From: England (but live in Finland now)
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RE: Fonts in Browsers - 1/3/2005 14:57:46
i probably am being direspectful but if you don't care about code then you shouldn't be touting your skills as 'Computer training, Consulting & Web Design'
if you were making a personal web site that would be fine (though it would help you to learn a *little* code if only to spot and solve problems like the minor font issue you have) but seeing as you might be building me or someone a site one day i'd hope you had more interest as a professional designer in caring a bit more 'about the code'.
if you change your mind we can help train you, and our consultation services are free :)
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David Prescott
Gekko web design
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BobbyDouglas
Posts: 5479
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From: Arizona
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RE: Fonts in Browsers - 1/3/2005 15:17:02
quote:
i probably am being direspectful but if you don't care about code then you shouldn't be touting your skills as 'Computer training, Consulting & Web Design'
- An into to FP course I think would be fine with just a look at the design tab, but if you are doing anything other than beginning FP, you need to learn a bit more about what it does. I do not know what curriculum you are using, but I know there are certain standards you must use to teach. I think everyone here is assuming what the cource curriculum is. Let me just state a few facts that might or might not help you.
This might not help you with your specific course, but spending some time learning what FP actually does (to the source code) will make you a better teacher. I know it has for me. You will be fine without knowing basic html, of course, that is what makes FP so good.
Most of the help you will get Charles, Jaybee, Dan, Dave, ect. all have different backgrounds with FP, but I will have to agree that there is something you should do with your code. If you are teaching this, you might as well take the extra 10-30 minutes to really get a better understanding- it will help those students who plan to continue in the course area.
What you have might "work" for you, but it only works under certain conditions, such as the browser, browser version, and OS. FP will produce code that works great in IE 6.0+ on XP. It will usually fail in Mozilla x.x. This is without making any manual changes to the source code, only using the WYSIWYG side of FP.
Here is a tip: You can use CSS to apply the same font to your entire page. You can remove your font size="1" to all those font sizes by doing this:
* {
font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif;
font-size: 1em;
}
The * will apply the efffect for all things, td, p, body, ect. If you can learn how to do this (it is very simple), you will be a better teacher. It will take about 10 minutes for you to learn, but if you don't care enoughh to learn it, I won't bother writing a clear explanation about it. I'l be more than happy to help you out, I really think you should take the next step and learn this.
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johnanthonygroup
Posts: 78
From: Arlington, Massachusetts
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RE: Fonts in Browsers - 1/3/2005 15:34:10
I appreciate everyones feedback!
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Tony Holowitz
John Anthony Group
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www.tonytheteacher.com
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dpf
Posts: 7126
Joined: 11/12/2003
From: India-napolis
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RE: Fonts in Browsers - 1/3/2005 15:38:24
quote:
i probably am being direspectful I dont think that is the least bit disrespectful. Frankly, I think it is disrespectful to sell yourself as a web designer who "doesn't care about the code".
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Dan
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dpf
Posts: 7126
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From: India-napolis
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RE: Fonts in Browsers - 1/3/2005 15:40:53
quote:
I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but I don't care about code. aahh..but the solution to the problem lies in the code... or I should say the cause of the problem lies there. The choice is yours.
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Dan
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johnanthonygroup
Posts: 78
From: Arlington, Massachusetts
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RE: Fonts in Browsers - 1/3/2005 15:50:00
Can we agree and to disagree?
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Tony Holowitz
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www.tonytheteacher.com
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d a v e
Posts: 4194
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: England (but live in Finland now)
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RE: Fonts in Browsers - 1/3/2005 16:02:21
incidentally points are for print (ok in a print stylesheet) but not for screen display. better to use relative units such as percentages, ems, etc.
someone who doesn't carre about code also doesn't care about accessibility (at least not until they're fined!)
i can agree to disagree otherwise as i don't think we can pursuade you, but it's disrespectful to fellow web designers/teachers and i'm disappointed you don't want to learn anything.
the web is built on standards and implicitly the code of (x)html and css, not frontpage.
i wish you good luck as i think you are going to need it :)
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David Prescott
Gekko web design
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Nicole
Posts: 2854
Joined: 9/15/2004
From: Nambucca / Kempsey, Australia
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RE: Fonts in Browsers - 1/5/2005 17:07:43
Tony,
I haven't read your website, only the posts in this thread, but i also agree with most of the comments made by others.
I had no idea of code either before joining this site in mid-September, I'd started my own web-design business from scratch with only a creative mind and Frontpage 2002. I'm incredibly broke at the moment and should go out and design sites for anyone that look good in one or two browsers like any other "web-designer" who doesn't know anything about code.
The amount of helpful info i've learnt in the last 4 months is phenomonal, and what's better, i won't forget it! It will, in the end, help me attract clients when i tell them confidently that all of my sites comply with worldwide standards and are accessible to people with a range of disabilities you just wouldn't believe are affected by poor websites.
Besides being sued as Jaybee mentions, you'll find over time that your reputation will be ruined as web developers surf into sites designed by you or your students and contact the website owners pointing out the flaws in the design and code and explain in detail what these flaws mean. These clients will be livid, so will your students who will wonder what the hell you're doing in business teaching web design in the first place.
Imagine how many potential students and clients of yours are already typing "johnanthonygroup" into a search engine and coming up with this message board thread and reading "that you've made a decision not to care about code"?
Nicole
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johnanthonygroup
Posts: 78
From: Arlington, Massachusetts
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RE: Fonts in Browsers - 1/5/2005 17:28:03
There is so much that I don't know. I honestly wasn't aware of the 508 regulation and correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems the regulation only applies to companies that have to do business with the federal government.
Is that correct?
Back to the code issue I brought up. All I'm trying to say is that knowing code doesn't mean every site you build is a good one.
You need to know about colors, fonts, layouts, graphics and much much more. All I'm saying is this: there is so much to know about web design, I don't believe code is the most important part of the puzzle. The sites I do are simple and concentrate on look and feel.
I'm not looking to get attacked here, I'm just expressing my opinion.
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Tony Holowitz
John Anthony Group
www.johnanthonygroup.com
www.tonytheteacher.com
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dpf
Posts: 7126
Joined: 11/12/2003
From: India-napolis
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RE: Fonts in Browsers - 1/5/2005 17:33:34
quote:
I don't believe code is the most important part of the puzzle. The sites I do are simple and concentrate on look and feel.
I'm not looking to get attacked here, I'm just expressing my opinion. ah tony but now you are being more reasonable.... we are here..on this forum..and not on a pure html forum because all of us have used fp extensively. Many of us started only knowing fp ( and got good stuff out of it) and gradually learned "code". In fact, most of us advice new users to use FP and just learn code gradually as the need arises. many here know code very well and still use fp.
you pressed trigger buttons whhen you said "dont care about code" as you now know..lol..but you are correct..knowing the code doesnt ensure good design. fact is web design is a combo of design "sense" and good code - whether you wrote the code or software did.
but back to your original post, we were just trying to show you where in the code the problem was..thats all
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Dan
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Giomanach
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From: England
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RE: Fonts in Browsers - 1/5/2005 18:28:56
Can I just cut in and say, if the coding isn't relatively clean, or spotless, you are then lowering the accessibility level of the site, and lowering the amount of SEO done on the site - both important for both successful web sites and web designers/developers
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