Buying new computer... e-machines vs Dell (Full Version)

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bobburk -> Buying new computer... e-machines vs Dell (1/18/2005 14:51:07)

I need to buy my daughter, who is in graduate school, a new computer. Her five year old Compaq sounds like it is dying. She basically just uses the computer for word processing, IM with her many friends, email, playing her music that she downloads, burning CDs, and Power Point presentations. So I don't need anything fancy or particularly fast. I was going to order a Dell Dimensions but then noticed the e-machines at Comp-USA and other big box stores. The sales people say the e-machines are well made now and that they would buy one if they needed a computer. Any thoughts or should I be considering some other options. By the way she hates her Compaq.

Bob B.



ou812 -> RE: Buying new computer... e-machines vs Dell (1/18/2005 15:20:47)

For basic use computers I think Dell is a good option. Their machines are decent and have reasonable warranties. Their support isn't always the best to go through but it does work. I have folks visit here http://www.gotapex.com/ to see what deals Dell has going on and then buy when they see a system that works for them. And you can customize to your liking.



bobby -> RE: Buying new computer... e-machines vs Dell (1/18/2005 16:13:07)

I would encourage you to go with the emachines from a chain store...

You'll get a warranty with a brick and mortar store to take it back to if need be. You'll get a killer deal ($300 after rebates for a full package) and emachines scored really well on product reliability and customer satisfaction.

They were purchased by Gateway about a year ago or so...

I've had nothing but bad experience with Dells over the last year. Of five machines I've delt with, three had to be completely restored (wipe the drive clean and reinstall everything) and one of them has had a HDD and a NIC go bad.

To say that their support isn't always best is a huge understatement. [8|]

My parents just picked up a Celeron eMachine for $300 with monitor and printer (Best Buy, after rebates) - plus the $50 for the extended warranty.



Kitka -> RE: Buying new computer... e-machines vs Dell (1/18/2005 17:44:42)

My laptop is a 3 year old Dell Inspiron. I haven't had any major issues with it (like hardware failure) but their support is pretty awful.

I doubt I'll ever buy another Dell machine. I'd prefer to pay a bit extra and buy locally from people I can see and talk to.



Giomanach -> RE: Buying new computer... e-machines vs Dell (1/19/2005 8:43:10)

In an article in one of the Magazines I get (of which I understand other UK Outfront members get) reported on whether it was better to buy a new PC, upgrade the current one, or build a brand new one.

Me being me, I don't trust the "off the shelf" or the Dell peices as far as I can throw them, I insist on buying parts and building the PC. That way, my warranty doesn't go when I remove a screw from the back of the case (just to have a look inside) or when I enter the BIOS.

As is known by most, I've just recently rebuilt my machine, and am well happy with it, I've just built another machine for a friend, and she's gonna be well happy too.

If it were me, I'd say build your own, b'cos then you get what you want, and you choose the prices you pay.

But judging by your post, I'd have to say go for an eMachine, never Dell, I spent too much time on their "Customer (un)Support Line" to go back to them.

Just my $0.02



dpf -> RE: Buying new computer... e-machines vs Dell (1/19/2005 8:48:26)

my nephew has had an emachine for 3 years and not a single problem. I'm with bobby - buy it local so you have a store to take it to. i go thru pc's like my wife goes thru shoes - i just bought a gateway for $800 - 512MB RAM - 120 gig HD, PIV 2.8 Mghz XP PRO LCD monitor - pretty happy so far. one more thought tho .for a student - my daughter is in college and i bought her a compaq laptop for about $1,000 - suits her needs perfectly - moreso than a desktop.



paulie -> RE: Buying new computer... e-machines vs Dell (1/19/2005 10:37:28)

quote:

one of the Magazines I get reported on whether it was better to buy a new PC, upgrade the current one, or build a brand new one.


What was the recommendation of the magazine?

I'm especially interested in the build-your-own option. Most of the people I know who have done this ended up chasing down drivers all over the Internet and fighting the inevitable BSOD. How hard is it to ensure that all your components are compatible with each other before you invest in things you can't return, and does anyone know of a good supplier you can trust to help with that goal?

BTW bobburk, I've been a happy Dell owner for three years at home and supported hundreds of them on corporate networks. Workstations, that is, not laptops. For those I recommend IBM.



bobby -> RE: Buying new computer... e-machines vs Dell (1/19/2005 11:11:46)

I didn't build my own... but I spec'd it and had it built at Computer Sonics here locally...

They built it to my spec, charged me a small fee above the great prices on each component, and a couple days later I was booting into a new box.

(They even updated Windows for me so there weren't any updates to grab or anything... nice of them considering the XP-Pro disk I gave them was aged a bit...)




paulie -> RE: Buying new computer... e-machines vs Dell (1/19/2005 11:55:19)

Hey, that's a good idea. That way they stand behind it if there is a problem, right? I know of a custom shop in my area that might do the same, I've never really explored it.

Bobby, you don't have to answer this by disclosing any numbers, but do you feel you paid less than for a comparably equipped OEM system?



Giomanach -> RE: Buying new computer... e-machines vs Dell (1/19/2005 12:09:30)

quote:

What was the recommendation of the magazine?

The final answer from that magazine was to build your own, based on the following:

Pros:

1) You get what you want
2) No Support lines to wait in (you built it, so how could there be?)
3) You know what's what and can upgrade it without having to wait for warranty & garuantee to run out.

Cons:

1) Warranty & garuantee is available on individual parts only
2) If it's broke, it's your fault, nobody elses

On individual parts, the general view was:

MoBos - Asus or Gigabit
HDD - Maxtor
RAM - Crucial Or Kingston
Graphics - Nvidia or Radeon
CD/DVD Burners - Lite-on (for value) Philips (for performance)
CPUs - AMD Sempron or P4
Cases - They didn't seem to bothered, as it was all down to size etc.

My newly rebuilt spec is as follows:

Asus MoBo (P4S800, 8xAGP, FSB 800Mhz)
P4 2.4/3.6Ghz Prescott [Lower Clock Speed: 2.4Ghz, Higher Clock Speed: 3.6Ghz (currently running at 3.4Ghz)]
256MB DDR400 RAM
80GB Maxtor DiamondPluis 9 HDD
Radeon 7000 Hightech 32MB AGP Graphics Card
Lite-on 52x32x52 CD Burner
Generic 16x DVD-ROM
400W PSU
Logitech Multimedia Keyboard (Wired)
Logitech MediaPlay Mouse (Cordless)

OS: Win XP Pro (SP2)

Cas: Raidmax Cobra Gaming Case

Overall Cost: £293 (XP not included as that has been purchased for over a year, monitor not included, but thats a 17" TFT (£149))

Can't be bought in the shops, no way, no how

BIG price difference, or at least I think so.

Building a PC is no bother, provided you get the right parts etc. I've also built a PC at the spec of 2Ghz Celeron, 256MB RAM, PC Chips MoBo (Onboard Vid, NIC, Sound), 40GB Maxtor DiamondPlus 8 HDD, MIDI Case etc for £210, same PC as bought in shops is about twice the price.

All you really need to know is what goes where, what processor goes with what motherboard, RAM types and speed etc.

Only problem with building mine was, the MoBo manual wasn't in english[&:], so I had to guess on the MoBo Jumpers etc

Years ago (back when I was a young lad), building a PC was for those with long white hair and brains bigger than Jupiter, now, anyone can do it, they just need a screwdriver.

Oh yeah...how many of you use Anti-static wrist bands? I don't[&:]



dpf -> RE: Buying new computer... e-machines vs Dell (1/19/2005 12:33:38)

quote:

Building a PC is no bother, provided you get the right parts etc
..and know what you are doing.



ou812 -> RE: Buying new computer... e-machines vs Dell (1/19/2005 12:34:54)

For me, if the computer is for someone else I would buy it whole, and with a warranty and support. I don't want to support them is why. For myself, I always build it, or have it built to my specs. I use this place often, www.pixelusa.com They use the better boards and accessories then most other shops and have been very reliable for me. Their technical guys are pretty darn good too, when I've been spec'ing out systems. I've been using them and building, or having them build, computers (about 50 by now) for me for about 15 years.



Giomanach -> RE: Buying new computer... e-machines vs Dell (1/19/2005 12:37:16)

I've just upped the overclocking on mine to 50%, and here's the stats:



[image]local://upfiles/9488/5E3AD9FAF93B44CEB0C5A056BF59761B.gif[/image]



paulie -> RE: Buying new computer... e-machines vs Dell (1/19/2005 12:38:10)

quote:

..and know what you are doing.


If you've ever worked on a Helpdesk (most common entry level IT job) where you have to support hardware, you'll know what you are doing after about three months, maybe less. It's not nearly as daunting as it looks.



bobburk -> RE: Buying new computer... e-machines vs Dell (1/19/2005 15:53:50)

Great discussion and answers. I was all set to buy an e-machine but the great deal that I found over the weekend was no longer there when I went to purchase last night. I subsequently found an even better deal on a Dell desktop at slickdeals.net and went ahead and ordered it. After the discussion about building your own, I feel inspired to look into that for my next machine. I need to do some reading to understand all that is involved...like after I use my screwdriver to install all the hardware, how do I start the darn thing without any software installed? And if it doesn't start the first time, will taking it to a computer shop eat up all my savings?



Giomanach -> RE: Buying new computer... e-machines vs Dell (1/19/2005 16:14:21)

The general way of getting a "home made" PC of the ground, is to ensure you buy compatible parts, so they all work.

Processor & Motherboard Socket types are a big player in the game of custom built PCs. Pentium 4s and Celerons will go into Socket 478 Motherboards, but not all will. Some motherboards are designed to take Pentium 4 only, others will only take Celerons, and some will take both.

I always pick my parts in the following order:

Processor
Motherboard
RAM
HDD
Optical Drive (CD/DVD)
Case

Why that order? If you pick the processor first it will allow you to choose the relevant Motherboard, that way, you don't get two parts that don't work together. Next the motherboard (that will sit the processor), as this will determine the type of RAM you can buy (SDR or DDR and speed). Next the RAM, one that will work with the Motherboard.

I do HDD, Optical Drives and case last, as they will practically work with any combination of motherboard, processor & RAM.

All parts usually come with Manuals (usually in english), which makes installation easy, provided you can read them [;)].

When it's all put together, when you switch it on for the first time, you should get some form of error message telling you (a) hardware conflict or (b) No OS found or (c) the tower/base unit will turn on but the monitor won't. If you get a, then you will need to look at the IDE configuration, or consider changing one of the parts. If you get b, open your CD drive and pop in your Windoze/Linux disc, and restart the machine. If you get c, the Motherboard is either faulty, or there isn't any power to the right bits of it.

unfortunately, I'm yet to find a local PC store that will help me with any problems I come across with my custom built PCs. The majority of them refuse service due to the fact that it isn't an "off the shelf" job, or they say I have no proof of warranty/guarantee. So I support myself[:D]

Plus, there's online support places, such as here, where you can get all the support and advice you need.

I think I'll shut up now and let someone else butt in[8D]

Dan



bobby -> RE: Buying new computer... e-machines vs Dell (1/19/2005 16:49:04)

I paid about the same... but got exactly what I wanted and was able to select better components.

I chose the 3 GHz processor and mobo because they were minimum requirements and low end prices for those requirements.

The rest of the components are name brand, trusted stuff like Maxtor drive and Samsung DVD, etc.

They matched an online price for the 9600XT which was nice... and gave me $75 off for bringing my own XP disk, while still giving me a 1(parts)/3(labor) year warranty.

My wife wasn't happy about it... because I was still at the high range of my budget.

She has since added new monitor and speakers because the old ones did not match.

... and soon I think she's going to ask me to take it back and put everything into a black case so that matches too

LOL

I know I spent the money where it counts... she thinks it should have more *bling* for the buck [;)]



_gail -> RE: Buying new computer... e-machines vs Dell (1/28/2005 8:06:43)

quote:

I'm with bobby - buy it local so you have a store to take it to.


I almost bought a Gateway at a local store, in fact had it in a shopping cart ready to hea to checkout. Then the salesman gave me a hard sell on buying their extended warranty for $150 (the PC came with a one year warranty). When I said no, that I get a full extra year by charging it on my credit card, he said if the computer had problems, I'd have to bring it to the store for service under the one year warranty. Needless to say, I had them unload the cart.

Buying directly from Dell or Gateway included a longer warranty with in-home service. That means a lot to me.

My only complaint about my new Dell is that the ports are difficult to get to. Gateway has them up higher and nicely hidden with a cover. But once plugged in, I don't change things that much.

My few calls thus far to Dell for tech support have been mediocre, however. It's pretty bad when someone with my limited technical knowledge ends up figuring out the problem as I talk with the tech person, who doesn't have the foggiest notion about the answer.

Anyway, I'm still setting it up and it sure is a lot quiter compared to my older computer.

gail



_gail -> Dell computer (1/31/2005 9:41:16)

I will never, ever buy a dell computer again. They are riding on old laurels. They say they have award-winning tech support, but the award must be for worst service in the industry.

I've spent hours on the phone each day for the past few days waiting for tech support to answer. When they finally do, it's hit and miss if they can answer your questions.

But the real issue is what they've done with the XP-home edition operating system. You can not reinstall the OS or most components without erasing the entire system and wiping out all the programs. My non-OEM version of XP that I bought and used on my old computer, lets me reinstall XP without erasing all my programs and files. Not with Dell.

You allegedly can do a clean reinstall in file minutes because Dell has intalled it on a partion on the drive. You are supposed to start the computer, hold down the Control button when you see the Dell screen, and promptly tap F11.

We'll it didn't work for me (I was told this set-up was factory installed incorrectly by Dell) so tech support is mailing me Restoration Disks with the OS and all their programs, drivers, etc. Can you believe they don't even provide you with Restore Disks?!?!?!? In other words, the way the computer was shipped to me is faulty.

This is the short version of the story. I share it to say: Buyer Beware!

gail



dpf -> RE: Dell computer (1/31/2005 9:44:25)

im having a similar running battle with gateway - i paid &79 extra to get xp pro - i want an xp pro disk - not married with all their stuff on a restore disk



Giomanach -> RE: Dell computer (1/31/2005 9:46:04)

Now you know why I don't trust off the shelf or pre-built PCs[;)]

There's that amongst other reasons



_gail -> RE: Dell computer (1/31/2005 9:50:25)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dpf

im having a similar running battle with gateway - i paid &79 extra to get xp pro - i want an xp pro disk - not married with all their stuff on a restore disk


I'd like to install the XP software that I bought separately for my other computer. But it will no doubt void the warranty. But even if it didn't, I don't even have all the drivers for monitor, etc., proprietary software, etc. to configure the system correctly after XP is installed.

Do you have any idea what's going on? I've owned A LOT of computers and they all come with restore software to partially or totally reinstall the OS. Do they think we're dumb or something?

gail



_gail -> RE: Dell computer (1/31/2005 9:52:33)

quote:

Now you know why I don't trust off the shelf or pre-built PCs


So, what do you do? I can't put a computer together by myself. I'm pretty good at troubleshoot software problems, but they've given me no tools to do so properly.



Giomanach -> RE: Dell computer (1/31/2005 9:54:18)

Gail

Download Everest Home Edition

That will analyse the system, and use the hardware signatures to tell you what hardware you have, and from that, you can then get the right drivers. I use it a lot, but mainly for temperature monitoring etc.

Any form of Tech Support line will try to make you feel dumb, even if they are wrong.

When you say you can't install the other version of XP on the machine, what do you mean you can't install it?

Dan

<edit>
quote:

So, what do you do? I can't put a computer together by myself. I'm pretty good at troubleshoot software problems, but they've given me no tools to do so properly.

I'm a smart alec and build my own PCs.

Download the analysis tool I posted the link to above, and use it to get hardware makes/models.

I'll find a free/cheap partitioning program for you, so you can parition the HDD, and install XP to a separate drive.
</edit>



_gail -> RE: Dell computer (1/31/2005 10:13:22)

quote:

When you say you can't install the other version of XP on the machine, what do you mean you can't install it?


I can install it, but it will void the warranty. Dell, like other companies, sends you a OME version of XP. But, as previously mentioned, this is the first time I ever received an OEM version of an operating system that didn't provide me with all drivers, software they put on. Heck, I tried to open the pre-installed Dell Media Center program and, before I could access it a window asked me to insert a disk which Dell didn't even provide.

Every time you call Dell tech support you have to punch in a bunch of numbers, then the support person asks you much of the same thing. I don't know how many times during the past few day that I've given them my name, address, "express" service code #, email address and phone number. About 40% of the time, I was disconnected part way through the conversation....and the tech people don't even call you back.

gail



Giomanach -> RE: Dell computer (1/31/2005 10:23:06)

Again, another reason for building PCs over buying pre-built systems, the warranty is specific to the parts, not the whole machine.

If you want, drop me an email, explaining exactly what you want to do with the PC, and I'll see if there are any workarounds for you ;)

PS: Note how Dell Recommend XP Pro, but the majority of the PCs/Laptops come with Home




burnstyle -> RE: Dell computer (2/3/2005 3:20:05)

the way i see it is this....


its not for a gamer

or a resource hog

or a filesharer

or a power browser


you could go low key and still have a great system for 4 or 5 more years


ill give you some links to help you out

(all links from newegg.com ... mabey not the cheapest but darn close)


first things first... cases
you dont want to spend a million bucks... but since its for your daughter you want it to look like you did

Sky Hawk/Eagle Tech Silver ATX Mid Tower Case, Model "BAX-4618"
this one is pretty and its only $19.99 SCORE!

power supply unit
XION Simply 350W Power Supply w/ 80 mm Silent Cooling Fan, Model "XON-350X"
i like xion... i use xion $20.75

hard drive
Maxtor 40GB 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive, Model 6E040L0
maxtor is like the god of hdd's $46.00

cd/dvd roms
my thoughts were always why buy three when you can buy three in one *unless your a nerd like me and own 2 combo drives and one cdrw* so we will just look at combo drives
Rosewill 52x32x52x16 CD-RW Cool Gray Combo Drive, Model RB-321
rosewill is decent... and $30.50 for a cdrw/cdrom/dvdrom .... you just cant beat it

now you dont really need a floppy drive but ill throw you a link for good mesure... just in case

floppy
Hi-Val Floppy Diskette Drive, Model H055R
i wont lie to you
ive never even heard of this company... but its a floppy drive... its only there for decoration... value is key $13.50

and the biggie

motherboard and processor
i am an amd man myself... but since some of you will flame me for days if i only link an amd
i will link both amd and pentium....
compare them... and you decide
for these im skipping to pricewatch

amd
SYNTAX SV400 Socket A Retail Box MBoard with cpu - AMD Sempron 2200+ - VIA KT400 Chipset AC97 Audio DDR 5 PCI LAN,1 AGP 8x ATX With Heatsink & Fan Complete Combo Kit
$78 from Aventura 949-888-9981

pentium
QDI P2PE/800 Pro Intel 82845PE MCH Chipset Socket 478 Prescott Ready 400/533 MHz FSB DDR400 PC3200 Audio LAN AGP 5PCI ATX - with cpu Intel Pentium 4 2.0GHz 400fsb 478 Pin w/Heatsink & Fan Complete Combo kit.
$140 from BZBOYZ.com 562-988-0343

both come with onboard audio and lan

im to tired to look up video and memory but so far your total cost is

amd 208.00

pentium 270.00


my advice...


dude get the dell








Nicole -> RE: Buying new computer... e-machines vs Dell (2/3/2005 3:37:53)

Hi Kitka,

I agree with you about Dell's support.

I have a Dell Dimension 4600, some minor problems and when i've needed to call them, i've firstly been on hold a while, and then kept talking with them for up to two hours while they talked me through unscrewing every nut and bolt in the thing. I don't appreciate that, i'm not at all technically minded nor do i really want to be, i'd much prefer to have someone come out and see the problem for themselves.

On the other hand, i don't think i've come across more helpful and friendly helpdesk people than the Dell support people.

Nicole



jaybee -> RE: Buying new computer... e-machines vs Dell (2/3/2005 4:24:22)

quote:

I've been a happy Dell owner for three years at home


Ditto, The only time I've ever had to open the case was to add an extra hard drive.

quote:

Can you believe they don't even provide you with Restore Disks?!?!?!?


No I can't. I haven't come across a single Dell machine that didn't come with a full pack of restore disks and drivers. In fact, I have so many sets I've been throwing them away.

Dell are aware that the support desks in India are not ideal and they're looking into how to change it. The USA is due to be switched back to home based support fairly soon.

I haven't had to use them but the people I've spoken to who have, there seems to be a 50/50 split between rubbish and amazing.

The machine I have now is fine for my purpose but when I do renew it will be another Dell.



bobby -> RE: Buying new computer... e-machines vs Dell (2/3/2005 10:30:39)

Dells restore disks are a joke.

My old HP machine had a single disk, and it took about 20 minutes to restore it to original condition...

I've worked with several Dells, they come with 4-7 different disks and it takes all freaking day to rebuild it.

I have one at home now that belongs to a friend and I get to completely rebuild it for him because Windows has stopped seeing his NIC and refuses to cooperate.

The hardware is good, coz Knoppix can see my network just fine...



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