Advice on Firefox (Full Version)

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fade2black -> Advice on Firefox (2/1/2005 6:19:40)

Hi

I was so proud of my web site until I was advised to check it using Firefox. I did and and Firefox shot it down to pieces!
I fixed some of the problems by (1) not using layers and (2) not using cell padding. Now it looks better, but Firefox still seems to view a cell or a table a lot wider than Explorer. I don't know what to do.
Can anyone help? and if there are any tips, it will be hugely appreciated.

Thanks
F2B



jaybee -> RE: Advice on Firefox (2/1/2005 8:34:56)

quote:

not using layers and (2) not using cell padding


Firefox, Mozilla, Opera etc treat things differently to IE. You've removed the cell padding, try looking at margins and borders as well.

If that doesn't sort it post a link and we'll take a look.



fade2black -> RE: Advice on Firefox (2/1/2005 12:31:43)

Hi Jaybee

I removed any boders from the first row of images and set page margins to 0's. Apart from not seeing the borders, everything else looks the same. The url is

http://www.euromixproperties.com/pages/new-developments.html

Thanks



Nick -> RE: Advice on Firefox (2/1/2005 12:56:37)

I am having the same problem as the original poster.

www.discerningthetimespublishing.com

Please go to the radio broadcast page and notice table for 01/30/05. I have changed the cell padding and spacing to 0. On all other tables it is padding 1 and spacing 2.

In IE (the original codes 1,2) it looks good, with Firefox, it looks like dung both ways.

Thanks!

Nick



bobby -> RE: Advice on Firefox (2/1/2005 13:19:16)

Both sites look pretty good to me in FF 1.0 (XP-Pro, 1024x768 rez)

[8|]




d a v e -> RE: Advice on Firefox (2/1/2005 13:38:21)

strange both tables look pretty 'dung' to me :)

there's a heck of lot of code around all that td info, all font tags, ms style info and the like. i'm sure if you built lean, clean table cells and used css then you would get a closer more acceptable match compared to IE and if you used a doctype too.

iif i get time i'll play around with a bit of your content and see what i can come up with for the table cells...





bobby -> RE: Advice on Firefox (2/1/2005 13:50:47)

aha, I do see the 1/30 table row is askew a bit...

There seems to be a lot of nested tables..? Or am I not deciphering the extra code properly...

I see a lot of new <table> tags popping up repeatedly...

I stopped counting at 44 new tables... try putting the data into one row with multiple rows... see if that helps?



Nick -> RE: Advice on Firefox (2/1/2005 14:45:35)

Dave? The tables look good to me in IE, what do you mean?

Bobby, I do enter each daily broadcast as a single table due to adding them individually on most days. BTW, am I the last person on the planet that still uses 800x600? I just can't take the itty bitty icons and then trying to read? Whoa, how do you all do it?

Goodness, I have come to really enjoy Firefox, but should one have to recode their sites for it?

Lastly, just want to thank all of you pros, I wrote Thomas probably a year ago, stating that I never have to post because 99 times out of a 100 you have answered my question with another poster.

Nick



bobby -> RE: Advice on Firefox (2/1/2005 14:48:43)

quote:

I just can't take the itty bitty icons and then trying to read? Whoa, how do you all do it?
17 and 19 inch monitors... [:D]

Adding multiple tables shouldn't be a problem... just makes it harder to sift through the code later on. [;)]

I didn't notice how deep they were nested if at all (table within a table, within a table) but as long as you're not more than 2-3 deep it shouldn't make much difference.

I'm not sure what's causing the first table to skew like it is... have you tried copying the table below it (that formats correctly), pasting it in and changing the info to replace the one that's gone wonky?



Nick -> RE: Advice on Firefox (2/1/2005 14:57:46)

Bobby, using a 19" monitor... still can't stand it... haha

I can easily fix the 1/30/05 table by going back to cell padding 1 from 0 and Cell spacing 2 from 0. I was trying a suggestion from a previous post.

The problem that I have is that the table itself is it appears so much larger in FF than in IE. Just looks so much better in IE than FF. :(

(OFF Topic: Does my 2005 norton internet security work with FF just as it does with IE? My very unprofessional opinion is that if and when FF gains acceptance it will be attacked just as IE is now.)

Nick



fade2black -> RE: Advice on Firefox (2/1/2005 15:52:20)

So, regarding the property web site (original question!)
Can anyone tell me why the cells are a lot wider than in IE6?

Thanks



bobby -> RE: Advice on Firefox (2/1/2005 16:59:02)

Mainly because IE doesn't render pages to W3C specification for CSS and HTML

All the other browser do... or at least they come a lot closer. IE isn't compliant, plain and simple.

As to what specifically is causing the problem, that could take a while to discover. Play with everything, or if somebody here gets time we can try...

I've spent days looking for a reason and a fix for why IE does something the way it does... only to finally decide that I would have to alter the design a touch so that it looked acceptable in IE and FF, O, M and NN

(was that enough acronyms?)

I remember just a few years ago when I spent most of my time designing in IE, then did a final check in other browsers... now it's the opposite. I develop using FF so I know it's correct, then spend more time making it work in IE.

It's almost like NN4x has posessed IE !

Don't even get me started on pre Safari Mac browsers... [8|]




fade2black -> RE: Advice on Firefox (2/2/2005 4:28:36)

Have been doing some testing and have fixed the problem.
I created another identical table, but instead of using CSS to resize the text within a table/cell, I changed the text size & font by going into the table/cell, "format" then "font" and changing it there. Firefox likes it!

So, as soon as you change the text size within a cell, Firefox doubles the cell size. I hope this is useful for other Firefox sufferers! Now I can get on with the web site.
Thanks for all the input.

F2B



d a v e -> RE: Advice on Firefox (2/2/2005 4:49:01)

fade2black
it's more likely using the p (paragraph) tag in for the table text that forces the extra space that goes with using a block level element. i assusme you wrapped the text with <span> to apply the font formatting? if so you could/should still use css. also missing a doctype/using an incomplete one will render greater differences between IE and firefox (or should i say greater degree of misinterpretation by IE ;) see comments below for links to doctypes info

******

Nick
- i've been replicating your table but with stripped down code and i can get it pretty similar between firefox and IE
http://members.tiscali.fi/dave_pirjo/test-area/broadcast_tables2.htm

IMHO opinion i think the table you have looks ugly with the different coloured borders, the cellspacing and the lack of padding

also you have lots and lots of errors on your page
http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A//www.discerningthetimespublishing.com/Radio.htm
some of which may be contributing to the differences in display and no doctype
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/doctype/
http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listamatic/about-boxmodel.htm

you might also want to refer to
http://www.w3schools.com/ in the html section and possbily the css section

hope this helps
i've got a sticking cold at the moment so i'm not doing any further bits on your tables :(

good luck and i'm sure if you have any more problems we'll be able to help you further



fade2black -> RE: Advice on Firefox (2/2/2005 6:21:34)

Thanks for that.

I've noticed that "ALT's". Also, "#Top" - to go to the top of page don't work in Firefox.



d a v e -> RE: Advice on Firefox (2/2/2005 7:26:50)

it works but you have to do it properly ;)

put this at the top of the page (in the code) 
<a name="Top"></a>


remember, you need a target for anchors! (links)



Nick -> RE: Advice on Firefox (2/2/2005 10:03:48)

Good morning Dave, yes you sure did get those tables to look much better. I am curious what you mean by different colored borders as I have all of them set to black.

I am no webmaster, I just created a table with fp2k... Looks good in IE and crappy in FF... I don't do anything with code just wysiwyg or at least that is what I thought until viewing with FF... If there is extra code then it's done by FP2K? Heck, I don't know... I am confused...

Thanks anyway! :)

Nick



fade2black -> RE: Advice on Firefox (2/2/2005 10:33:17)

Thanks Dave. It's done the trick.

Any ideas re: the "Alt's"?




Donkey -> RE: Advice on Firefox (2/2/2005 11:11:55)

quote:

Any ideas re: the "Alt's"?

As Dave has pointed out previously elswhere in the forum, the alt attribute text only appears as a pop-up on IE. To get the same effect in the compliant browsers you need to add a title attribute as well e.g. title="Picture of Somewhere" It can be the same as the alt text (which is intended for screen readers).



bobby -> RE: Advice on Firefox (2/2/2005 12:14:46)

You should still include the alt text...

Glad you got it figured out... or at least to a managable level.




fade2black -> RE: Advice on Firefox (2/5/2005 5:11:36)

Thanks guys, the alt's are now working on FF.



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