Frontpage is v. v. slow when using CSS (Full Version)

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Paleblue -> Frontpage is v. v. slow when using CSS (2/22/2005 15:27:49)

I've been using FP for many years and upgraded to FP 2000 some years back. I've become fairly familiar with it. But I've never used CSS.

Started using CSS now and FP runs like a tortoise on editing work. Some of my sites that have no CSS still run at the normal speed but when I fire up pages that have CSS... scrolling up and down in Normal (editing) view is painfully, painfully slow.

I've tried to find the answer here and found excellent CSS threads and many good links - including links to troubleshooting pages - which I've read, but none seem to address this problem I'm having.

I recall reading some while ago that 1 pixel spacer gifs could be causing the problem. So I redesigned my template without spacer gifs and I STILL have the problem. Can anyone help?



jaybee -> RE: Frontpage is v. v. slow when using CSS (2/22/2005 15:45:54)

Welcome to OF [:D]

The problem is probably due to FP2000. The support for css is extremely limited. FP2003 is much better but still not brilliant.

If you want to use css then I suggest you go grab one of the freebie editors like HTMLPad or HTMLKit. If you check out the Hints and Tips forum there's a thread with links to loads of freebies.



Paleblue -> RE: Frontpage is v. v. slow when using CSS (2/22/2005 16:12:37)

Thanks for your reply jaybee.

Since I posted this I've had a chance to try my sites out in FP2003 (on another PC). I get exactly the same problem.

I would dearly love to try the programs suggested but I do rely on various FP features like "includes" (SSI), Find and Replace, hyperlink charts and other tools.



jaybee -> RE: Frontpage is v. v. slow when using CSS (2/22/2005 17:56:09)

Are you using FP Themes and css or writing your own css?

Can you post a url to one of the pages so I can take a look.



bobby -> RE: Frontpage is v. v. slow when using CSS (2/22/2005 18:47:18)

quote:

I would dearly love to try the programs suggested but I do rely on various FP features like "includes" (SSI), Find and Replace, hyperlink charts and other tools.

Keep in mind that includes aren't only available through Frontpage... and the FP includes aren't SSI... they're a FP web bot. [;)]

Most of what you described can be found elsewhere, like find > replace, etc.

The one thing that FP does really well is WYSIWYG editing... not quite the same as Dreamweaver, but also half the price.

It might be worthwhile to check into other editors, especially since many are free [:D]

What speed is your PC and how much RAM do you have?

When you upload a page, does it work fine in a browser? Or do you see the same lag that you see locally in FP preview?

Are you seeing the same thing if you "preview in browser" ?

Using CSS shouldn't affect the speed of your editor, Frontpage or otherwise... I'm thinking there is another problem somewhere...



jaybee -> RE: Frontpage is v. v. slow when using CSS (2/23/2005 4:04:20)

It shouldn't affect the speed but I've found several people who are having problems of varying sorts with FP2000 and css. I'm wondering if it's something to do with rendering layers.



Paleblue -> RE: Frontpage is v. v. slow when using CSS (2/23/2005 6:42:45)

Thanks for your replies.

bobby, I did buy a copy of DW but really hated using it. I know, I know, it takes time but I've invested too much in learning FP and, more importantly, all its quirks. I'm aware that includes work slightly differently to SSIs in that they aren't server side. But, for example, I paid a big price to learn the relative URL problem (i.e. when you fire up a template in FP you have to save it in the new file name and directory otherwise all the links you add in the content could get messed up and point to locations on your hard disk). It took me many days to sort the problems this ignorance cost me.

I have no doubt DW is an excellent program for many but I don't have the time to start from scratch. I have thousands of pages spread over several sites and one screw up could cost me dearly in time (and money).

>> The one thing that FP does really well is WYSIWYG editing

Bingo! That's exactly why I like using it. I see myself as an author, not a webmaster, and I like to concentrate on the writing bit rather than coding or design. FP is great for writing articles.

The pages work fine in Firefox and IE. They also scroll just dandy in Preview mode. I'm in the IT industry and have several pretty up-to-date PCs (in fact, I write articles on the latest PC hardware). My assumption is that the problem is not for want of the right hardware.

To answer jaybee's questions: I'm not using themes; I'm using an external CSS file. I've mailed you some domains, jaybee.



jaybee -> RE: Frontpage is v. v. slow when using CSS (2/23/2005 7:06:36)

OK, bear with me and I'll take a look later. I've got a deadline to hit today but once that's out of the way I'm clear for a few hours.



Paleblue -> RE: Frontpage is v. v. slow when using CSS (2/23/2005 7:29:50)

Much appreciated.



jaybee -> RE: Frontpage is v. v. slow when using CSS (2/24/2005 5:33:05)

All the subsequent conversation has taken place by email. In case anyone else is having the same problem I'm posting this so the information is available.

OK, from what I can see and I've not pulled it into FP as I don't use bots and don't even have them installed, I suspect the problem is down to the template you've used.

The template is using backgrounds in the HTML source code and then backgrounds are also being specified in the css. It's possible the mixture is confusing FP which is having to sort out which takes priority. You still have css styling (internal) in the other site but it's not trying to override backgrounds and layout.

The whole point of css is to get all the styling separated from the content. If you're not confident with it then we usually suggest you start by putting the font styling etc in an external style sheet and leave the layout in the html. When you've got to grips with that, get the layout in the css as well.

Jaybee



Paleblue -> RE: Frontpage is v. v. slow when using CSS (2/24/2005 6:20:00)

Jaybee, thanks for that. It sounds like the possible answer (I had never considered background images as the source of the problem).

>>If you're not confident with it

That's me! That's me! LOL

Thanks for your help. I will try this and get back.



jaybee -> RE: Frontpage is v. v. slow when using CSS (2/24/2005 7:08:45)

quote:

That's me! That's me! LOL


Don't worry, I use it a lot and it still manages to make my head spin. [:D]



Paleblue -> RE: Frontpage is v. v. slow when using CSS (2/24/2005 8:32:52)

Just to update you guys (and help any future readers of this thread) Jaybee's suggestion led me to the answer.

I first tried deleting the background images i.e. I went to each <td width="100%" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" background="image.gif"> and removed the background="image.gif" which made no diffference. So, I removed the bgcolor as well. Still no difference. Then I made one little change that completely solved the problem. I removed the background image (<body... background="image.gif">) and that solved the problem completely.

Background images were not a problem before I started using CSS, but I can see jaybee's point. So, here is my unconditional apology for the unjust accusation against CSS ;)

And my undying gratitude to jaybee for her very generous help.



dpf -> RE: Frontpage is v. v. slow when using CSS (2/24/2005 8:56:28)

and just to support jaybees suggestion....
if you look at the code FP generates, you will see font tags EVERYWHERE. converting fonts to css and getting those <font> tags out of your html is a huge step towards reducing its size and slowly easing you into css. its the theory of "baby steps" build confidence. In addition, one the important reasosn for using css is that it make maintence so much easier - imagine wanting to change font colors and having to find every <font> tag!!!

I also want to support your (paleblue) earlier comment about not using dreamweaver - I happen to love DW@, started with FP and switched but.... what you say makes sense - you have invested a lot in FP and dont want to make the switch right now. DW is less intuitive although = easy after you get the layout but if you are happy with FP, dont let anyone push you into switching.



jaybee -> RE: Frontpage is v. v. slow when using CSS (2/24/2005 15:28:02)

Glad I was able to help and save css' reputation in the process. [:D]



bobby -> RE: Frontpage is v. v. slow when using CSS (2/24/2005 16:18:41)

quote:

I have no doubt DW is an excellent program for many but I don't have the time to start from scratch.

A lot of people like it. I think it's more $$ than it's worth... [8|]



jaybee -> RE: Frontpage is v. v. slow when using CSS (2/24/2005 18:15:41)

The only time I really use it is if I'm hacking somebody else's PHP code. It gives you PHP markers in design view so you can see where things are rather than having to wade through all the code.



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