DIV Tag

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Eric_1 -> DIV Tag (5/3/2001 13:42:00)
Does anyone know how to turn the DIV tag function off so that FrontPage doesn't insert them around my tables? I occasionally use the DIV tag to butt one table up against another, but I don't use them all of the time. Now I have to go back through my tabling code and delete these tags, and it's really annoying. My tables can get really complex, so letting FrontPage write the table code is necessary to speed up the process, but this DIV tag is getting me down. I don't remember this being a problem before this week, and I've used FrontPage for about a year in a professional environment. Did I change a setting somewhere causing this tag to appear everywhere?

Thomas Brunt -> RE: DIV Tag (5/3/2001 15:43:00)
I don't like the div tag either. It appears to be an overzealous attempt at cross browser compatible coding. FP only writes the divs when you align center. If you're writing complex tables, you should be able to leave align at default and do pixel and percentage widths. If you do that then you won't see the div tags.

Eric_1 -> RE: DIV Tag (5/3/2001 16:20:00)
I tried this and see what you mean. In creating my parent table, I left the alignment at default. The minute that I add alignment to my table, or an embedded table, the div tag appears with far more coding than necessary for just aligning tables. Why does it use the div tag instead of just inserting the alignment into the <table> tag such as align="center"? I see no advantage in using the div tag for alignments. It's just clutter that adds to my coding grief. I've considered switching products. Is this just a Microsoft problem, or will I find this in products like Dreamweaver?

Thomas Brunt -> RE: DIV Tag (5/3/2001 16:34:00)
I can't imagine that a little bug like that would be a reason to swith products. You don't see FP bugs in Dreamweaver, and you don't see Dreamweaver bugs in FP, but you see bugs in every computer program. I know that some early versions of Netscape could not see the align attribute in the table tag. My guess is that some MS programmer decided that this was the best approach to that issue. She/He was wrong, but it doesn't get in my way. I rarely align tables.

Eric_1 -> RE: DIV Tag (5/3/2001 16:48:00)
I guess it depends on the type of websites or intranets you design. I write tables in a way that I build different types of borders and colored areas. I use these borders and areas in combinations with 1 pix gifs, backgrounds and so on. More and more I use table alignments to shape my pages. People that design portal style websites will probably require more alignments than other designers. I have little patience of WYSIWYG functions, and if I had time, I'd hand code each page I publish, but I just don't have time anymore. I usually only tweak it by hand, or write in code FrontPage can't write. Would this bug be enough to want to dump it? Maybe I'll just find something that writes tables better. FrontPage is still good for overall designing on the fly and file administration, and is certainly worth the price for that. But I see where they can make major improvements. Experienced coders don't need software telling them how to write cross compatible. There should be a way I can shut that function off in favor of more traditional coding. I remember Symantec Visual Page had problems like that, and I dumped it in favor of FrontPage. Then Symantec dumped the whole product. I guess I wasn't the only one with problems with it. Maybe MS will make improvements in the next version of FP. Thanks for your help. I'll just learn to live with it for the time being.

abbeyvet -> RE: DIV Tag (5/3/2001 16:53:00)
I gather from what you say that a lot of your tables are embedded? In this case I have found it best to use cell alignment in the cell in which the table is embedded in order to position the table rather than positioning the table itself. This avoids the <div> tags. quote: Experienced coders don't need software telling them how to write cross compatible. Perfectly true, but FrontPage is not really a product primarily aimed at experienced coders. Have you used Homesite? You write the pages in HTML but it has some very useful shortcuts for creating tables etc. I increasingly use it in combination with FP - the one to write the code and the other to take advantage of file management ect. ------------------ Katherine InKK Design LinKKs - Kilkenny's Online Magazine ---------- "Dogs have owners, cats have staff!" [This message has been edited by abbeyvet (edited 05-03-2001).]

Spooky -> RE: DIV Tag (5/3/2001 17:02:00)
The answer to not using div / span, is FP > tools > Page settings > General > "Use div and Span" ------------------ Spooky "I am Spooky of Borg. Prepare to be assimilated, babycakes!" Subscribe to OutFront News Database / DRW Q & A The Spooky Login!

Thomas Brunt -> RE: DIV Tag (5/3/2001 17:06:00)
I used to tell folks that, Spooky, but folks told me it didn't work. I hand code most of my tables anyway. FP doesn't mess with my hand coding as long as I tell it not to. Tools > Page Options > HTML Source > Check preserve existing html

Eric_1 -> RE: DIV Tag (5/3/2001 17:19:00)
I thought Homesite was a little ditzy program for people at home? I hadn't considered it a product for professionals. Even then, since Allaire merged with Macromedia, it may not be around much longer. On the upside, I know Homesite is not expensive, but on the downside, they don't have a mac version. At my home office I mostly use a mac, and at my office at work I use always use a PC. By using both PC and Mac versions of FP, I'm able to transfer files back and forth between the two locations with no hassle. But Homesite might be worth buying for work. I'll think about it. Believe it or not, I still use Notepad or WordPad for fast coding when writing code FP can't, or when I get frustrated with FP, like today. Sometimes the oldest methods are the best. I'll try the eval version of Homesite and see how it goes. Thanks.

Eric_1 -> RE: DIV Tag (5/3/2001 17:38:00)
Spooky, I checked that setting, and that box is not checked in my version. So FP enters the DIV tag regardless of how you check that box in the Page Options dialog box.

abbeyvet -> RE: DIV Tag (5/3/2001 17:59:00)
quote: I thought Homesite was a little ditzy program for people at home? Oh no, no, no! It's a joy and an indispensible tool if you work much with scripts. ------------------ Katherine InKK Design LinKKs - Kilkenny's Online Magazine ---------- "Dogs have owners, cats have staff!"

Gil -> RE: DIV Tag (5/3/2001 19:02:00)
quote: Originally posted by Eric_1: I thought Homesite was a little ditzy program for people at home? LOL - there's probably more "professional" web sites written with Home Site than an other application. quote: I hadn't considered it a product for professionals. Even then, since Allaire merged with Macromedia, it may not be around much longer. That's one of the major reasons Macromedia bought Allaire - to get homesite, DW has loaded it and used it as it's default text editor since version 1 ------------------ Gil Harvey The Host Factory Resellers are our speciality "Is there another word for synonym?"

Eric_1 -> RE: DIV Tag (5/3/2001 19:24:00)
I don't think Macromedia merged with Allaire just for Homesite. Macromedia could have designed their own html editor if they had wanted. I think they wanted Allaires cold fusion software which is the one element that they needed to complete their web software collection. I'm guessing that since they have started using Homesite in DreamWeaver (which I hadn't known), that they'll stop selling Homesite as a $99 standalone. I've seen this happen all too often. Face it, Macromedia is not in the business of selling low cost software. Their software caters to professionals willing to pay a few extra bucks for something special. If they do stop selling it as a stand alone like I believe they will, I hope they wait until I try it out :-)

Gil -> RE: DIV Tag (5/3/2001 21:11:00)
quote: Originally posted by Eric_1: I don't think Macromedia merged with Allaire just for Homesite. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear - They (Macromedia) didn't buy (they called it a merger for the press, but Macromedia bought Allaire) just for Homesite, but it "was" a important piece of the puzzle. (This from a long time Macromedia employee). quote: I think they wanted Allaires cold fusion software which is the one element that they needed to complete their web software collection. Yep! quote: I'm guessing that since they have started using Homesite in DreamWeaver (which I hadn't known), that they'll stop selling Homesite as a $99 standalone. They didn't {i]start{/i] using Homesite - they've had it in the install since version 1. I doubt they will drop the #1 selling text HTML editor. I've used Homesite since version 0 - when it was freeware . And DW since vewrsion 1, it's a heck of a combination as is FP & Homesite. I also started writing HTML when Notepad was the only choice, but since Homesite I use it dailey with either FP, DW or Net Objects Fusion. Get a copy of Homesite and you'll wonder how you ever got along without it. ------------------ Gil Harvey The Host Factory Resellers are our speciality "Is there another word for synonym?" [This message has been edited by Gil (edited 05-03-2001).]

rdspollin -> RE: DIV Tag (5/4/2001 20:29:00)
does homesite have wysiwyg functions? i think i remember using it a whle back . . . i prefer 1st page 2000 myself, and its completely free! ( http://www.evrsoft.com/1stpage/ )

Gil -> RE: DIV Tag (5/4/2001 20:50:00)
quote: Originally posted by rdspollin: does homesite have wysiwyg functions? No -it's a text editor. They did add a preview mode in version 4 or 4.5... quote: i think i remember using it a whle back . . . i prefer 1st page 2000 myself, and its completely free! ( http://www.evrsoft.com/1stpage/ ) First Page is a great tool and like you say FREE! I've used Homesite so long I am used to the layout, etc. Not to mention the 300+ snippets I've got in it and the validator is invaluable to me. ------------------ Gil Harvey The Host Factory Resellers are our speciality "Is there another word for synonym?"

Eric_1 -> RE: DIV Tag (5/4/2001 13:06:00)
I downloaded 1st Page this morning, and it's very impressive, I love having the tags just there and available. There are a few things that might be improved, like why is the palette in only RGB? A Hex table would be great. Maybe it's there, and I'm not seeing it. But it's not a big deal, I typically use a poster style Hex table anyway. And at first, I had problems getting the preview mode to show the correct widths of embedded table divisions when I manually typed in percentage widths. It only seems to happen occasionally, but that isn't a big deal. This should be a very good compliment to FP. And it's free, so I have nothing to complain about. Thanks for the tip, this really helps me.

Spooky -> RE: DIV Tag (5/4/2001 17:14:00)
quote: Originally posted by Thomas Brunt: I used to tell folks that, Spooky, but folks told me it didn't work. Ah yes, thats what that find and replace was for

LB -> RE: DIV Tag (5/4/2001 19:28:00)
Is there a problem with the DIV tag, other than bloating the code? Linda ------------------ VShoppingCart - Compatible with PayPal, CheckSpace, and Authorize.net. New Frontpage Web Templates: Rose1 (Invitation) and White Rose

EzSnake -> RE: DIV Tag (5/5/2001 20:39:00)
Ok since I'm new and I tried all of these.. I will give you a newbie perspective on em.. DW = Great for advanced table layouts..I don't like the way it "shows" included files on the page ur designing. So I use it for tables only. FP = Used to do main page design w tables from DW. 1st page = Too damn advanced for me..was lost..however I like the numbered lines in html view. PS- LB you just got yourself another client for that cart..(I just got to find a way to have Ecomm on my "Free" site) PSS- How do you use <DIV> tags anyway ..I seen em in mine but no clue how to use or manipulate them. [This message has been edited by EzSnake (edited 05-05-2001).]

Thomas Brunt -> RE: DIV Tag (5/5/2001 13:51:00)
The only problem I've seen the FP div tags create was in IE3. You couln't stack FP centered tables in that browser because the div tags resulted in empty vertical space. Div tags are often used to wrap around blocks of code to set them apart. They can be used with css code. You can apply css styles to everything within a given div. I think this is a clue to what may have been in the mind of the programmers who decided that FP needed to put divs around tables that are aligned anything other than default. Maybe they were thinking about having css formatting from the table dialog flow into the div tag. Then maybe they changed their minds and forgot to get rid of the div tag or didn't have time to get rid of it before the release date. [This message has been edited by Thomas Brunt (edited 05-05-2001).]

Eric_1 -> RE: DIV Tag (5/7/2001 20:53:00)
Don't get me wrong, I'm not getting down on this tag, but when you find this tag everywhere, it makes it difficult to make formatting changes. I personally use it to stack tables, but I've seen others use it to stack paragraphs. As of yet I haven't exactly embraced styles, and I think Thomas was right in that this is why the DIV tags are inserted around tables. When FP first came out, there was a lot written about FP's ability to work with styles. I only use styles for text, I suppose I should look into using styles for tables too, maybe then I'll appreciate the DIV tag around my tables more. I do find it strange that there is a page option, as Spooky mentioned, that allows you to turn on and off the DIV and SPAN tags, yet it doesn't appear to make a difference. Did someone goof?

Thomas Brunt -> RE: DIV Tag (5/7/2001 13:42:00)
I think there are goofs in every piece of software.

Spooky -> RE: DIV Tag (5/8/2001 20:36:00)
I think some pieces of software are written by goofs

LB -> RE: DIV Tag (5/8/2001 20:42:00)
You should know, Spooky.

reman -> RE: DIV Tag (5/11/2001 20:39:00)
Hello! DIV tags are used like P tags in that they have a space before and after. SPAN tags are used inline to format a part of some text...like B only better! They DO work well. NN 4.x has some strange problems working with CSS. Though NN 4.x is strange overall.... If your "Use DIV SPAN" is off then you might have set the option (I forget where it is) that uses a specified html file as its FORMATTING template I hope that helps! Marc

Spooky -> RE: DIV Tag (5/11/2001 16:58:00)
quote: Originally posted by LB: You should know, Spooky. I resemble that remark! ------------------ ��k� "I am Spooky of Borg. Prepare to be assimilated, babycakes!" Subscribe to OutFront News Database / DRW Q & A The Spooky Login!

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