Anyone selling an inactive site? (Full Version)

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Mojo -> Anyone selling an inactive site? (3/22/2005 10:13:19)

If anyone is interested in selling an inactive site let me know. I am in the market for a few. They need to be indexed by the major search engines and have at least a PR2 on the Google toolbar. They don't need to be making money or have any traffic.

Thanks,

Joe



Giomanach -> RE: Anyone selling an inactive site? (3/25/2005 9:51:39)

http://wm-talk.com/viewtopic.php?t=1141

That's just appeared on one of my forums....not sure if it's any good to you?

Dan

<edit>
It's only PR1

Sorry....
</edit>



Mojo -> RE: Anyone selling an inactive site? (3/25/2005 10:03:49)

Dan, thanks for the tip. Unfortunately, it is not a fit. Maybe if it was $50 instead of $2500. I buy and sell a lot of sites - the seller is asking way to much for a site that gets the majority of it's traffic from Asia, has no reported income, has a terrible domain that may be impossible to market and it the proud owner of a PR1.

It is tough selling sites without solid traffic and proven income. Unfortunately, most sellers value their sites based upon how long it took them to build it. Most buyers, are looking for the same kind of benchmarks that you find in the brick and mortar world - traffic, income, marketability, uniqueness etc.

Since I have been tracking site sales (2 + years) I have noticed a sad phenomenon - Most of the sites that are for sale will simply be dropped the next time the domain comes up for renewal. Thousands of them a month. People ask for $100s or $1000s for their sites, argue the various points of why their site is not worth that much and then can't be bothered to pay $7 to renew the domain when they don't sell.



dpf -> RE: Anyone selling an inactive site? (3/25/2005 10:05:34)

quote:

then can't be bothered to pay $7 to renew the domain when they don't sell.
amazing, Joe!



Giomanach -> RE: Anyone selling an inactive site? (3/25/2005 10:11:00)

quote:

argue the various points of why their site is not worth that much and then can't be bothered to pay $7 to renew the domain when they don't sell.

I pay more than that for a domain I use purely for testing purposes!

I'll keep an eye out for sites being sold.

Just being curious here, how would you determine how much I site is worth? I'm asking from your point of view Joe, not in general[8|]



Mojo -> RE: Anyone selling an inactive site? (3/25/2005 11:17:52)

quote:

Just being curious here, how would you determine how much I site is worth?


Site finances - How much profit does the site earn each month. This is arguably the most important figure. Not only do you need to know how much money the site is bringing in each month, but you need to know the expenses. Hosting, advertisements, paid services such as SEO or paid traffic/links etc.

Site traffic - This is the life-blood of a site. Where does the traffic come from? Is it reliable? Is it targeted? There are a lot of tricksters out there trying to take money away from unsuspecting hands. It takes 4 to 8 weeks to make a PR5 site (actually, 1 day and then leave it in the oven for 6 weeks), purchase bulk loads of traffic on the cheap and then try to sell this 'established site' with traffic for $500.

You need to at least see screen shots of the sites stats package to determine the origin of the traffic and any unusual patterns. I know of a sale where the traffic was US based, but on further inspection the traffic was coming in each day at the same time and lasted around 8 minutes. It was obviously purchased traffic, but the new owner (not me) didn't discover it until after the purchase.

Page rank - Let's face it. PR is a part of a site wether we like it or not. Many, many sites are purchased just for their PR value. This value fluctuates depending on many factors including the industry, income, traffic etc. A sale based on purely PR is silly as there are many ways to get a PR5 quickly - and it can leave just as quickly. PR6, 7 and up take longer to build. The cheapest I have seen a PR6 go for was $199. Most sell for much more if the site has anything valuable to offer (other than PR).

Potential - Is there room to grow the site into more than what it already is? This takes some education, but you can often find bargin sites that can triple their income with a little work.

Source of income - Generally speaking, sites that make their income from Ads don't sell for as much as a similar site that sells a product or is an affiliate for a merchant selling a product. The reason typically has to do with margins. For an ad based site to be *profitable* it usually depends on the organic search listings (read: free). These listings change wildly and with little notice. A site purchased today with great Adsense income could lose half of it in a week. Like everything, you need to investigate. An established, authority site should be more valuable than a newer site. Affiliate sites suffer from the same problems as Ad driven sites, but they often are more profitable.

The second most valuable site is a solid ecommerce site with good products and a high entry point. Many manufacturers limit the number of online retail outlets - or flat don't want anyone selling online. Some ecommerce sites have arrangements with multiple brick and mortar stores to sell their 'restricted' products online. These are usually very good sites to own.

The most valuable site is again, an ecommerce site, but one where the site actually owns the rights to or produces their own desirable product. The source of income is great because you don't have manufacturers MAP guidlines limiting sales and the profit margines tend to be superb.

Other factors for valuing a site include - how much time it takes to run, unique content, does it come with stock? etc...

I base my purchases on historical data on most of the points listed above and have much of it automated through a script. I can then tweek the results by hand for non-numerical values.

Any other thoughts?



dpf -> RE: Anyone selling an inactive site? (3/25/2005 11:24:08)

quote:

Any other thoughts?
you are one of a kind.



Giomanach -> RE: Anyone selling an inactive site? (3/25/2005 11:26:43)

quote:

Any other thoughts?

No. Thank You

Dan



_gail -> RE: Anyone selling an inactive site? (3/30/2005 7:42:17)

quote:

Any other thoughts?


Questions, rather than thoughts. Interesting information!

quote:

For an ad based site to be *profitable* it usually depends on the organic search listings (read: free).


Not sure what you really mean by this. Can you explain more fully?

quote:

An established, authority site should be more valuable than a newer site.


What's an "authority" site?

quote:

Affiliate sites suffer from the same problems as Ad driven sites, but they often are more profitable.


Why is that?


How does one really appaise a fair selling price for a website? Use a broker like Tom mentioned in his newsletter yesterday?

quote:

Buying or Selling a Web Site?

I had somebody ask the other day. This is what I found. I cannot vouch for it in any way, but it's kind of interesting to see how much your site might be worth.

http://www.buysellwebsite.com/


And who are these folks anyway? How do you know if they're worth their salt (ie. what they charge for an appraisal)? They're not exactly a household name like Century 21.

thanks,

gail



Mojo -> RE: Anyone selling an inactive site? (3/30/2005 13:37:40)

quote:

quote:

For an ad based site to be *profitable* it usually depends on the organic search listings (read: free).


Not sure what you really mean by this. Can you explain more fully?


There is usually not enough margin in ads for you to run a PPC (pay per click) campaign to direct traffic to your ads. The same goes for a CPM campaign. The cost of paying for your own site ads is not enough to be profitable if your only source of income is to resell ads. Since the organic listings are - at least in theory - free. You can run ads and make a nice profit.

If your very clever, you can find obscure terms for high value phrases and bid the lowest amount on these obscure terms. With a bit of luck you can turn a profit.

quote:

quote:


An established, authority site should be more valuable than a newer site.

What's an "authority" site?


Simply put, an authority site (or page) is one where some of the best experts of the query topic link to it. Usually, authority sites are older as it can take time to build the quality inbound links from topical experts. I can't mention authority sites without bringing up hubs. A hub is a page that is on a specific topic (usually good content) that links to many non-affiliated pages on that same topic.

quote:

quote:


Affiliate sites suffer from the same problems as Ad driven sites, but they often are more profitable.

Why is that?


As an affiliate, you don't get paid just for someone viewing your page or clicking an ad. You only get paid when a conversion is made. That conversion is usually a sale so your site needs to be compelling enough to cause the visitor to click your affiliate ad and your merchant partner needs to have a strong enough product or price in order to close that sale. In some cases, you can both open and close the sale on your own site. Typically, an affiliate will earn 5% - 8% of the sale price. My best affiliate site pushes a product where the average sale is $250 and my cut is $20. This is usually a lot more money that getting $10 CPM or $0.30 per click from Adsense.

You can run ads for your affiliate site (many sites do), but your profitability suffers. Especially when you run ads for product X and the manufacturer for product X is running an ad right next to you.

quote:

How does one really appraise a fair selling price for a website? Use a broker like Tom mentioned in his newsletter yesterday?


Yes and No.

First, the 'yes' -
I am not endorsing or refering to the company listed in the newsletter, but you do need a professional if your selling a valuable site. How many people would sell their car without refering to a Blue Book or such? How do you value traffic, the marketing uses of the site, income sources etc? Some things like Page Rank from Google fluctuate value greatly. You could be selling a site making $300 profit per month, but if you knew what the buyer knows - you may be able to make $1000 per month. IMO - the pricier services that values sites should include detailed tips on how to monitize the site.

And now, the No -
I can't make the point strong enough of how many sites for sale are simply dropped in a year. Usually site owners, especially if it is their first site overvalue their site. They remember the countless hours they put into developing the site and couldn't dream of parting with it for less than $x,xxx. In reality, a skilled developer/designer could likely bang it out in a few days.

In my experience, the majority of sites sell for $100 or less. By many measures, they could be worth more, but in reality they DON'T SELL for more. You could play the waiting game and the perfect buyer may come along in due time. But, I think that is what happens to all the dropped sites that were for sale. They waited so long for a buyer that they either forgot or gave up.

How do you pay over $300 for an appraisal on a site that should sell for $100? Knowing human nature, many would do a chargeback if the value came in real low after shelling out $300+. Makes you wonder what really happens...

Note: I have a problem with appraisal services that also broker sales. To me, it seems like it would be easy to have a conflict of interest.

quote:

And who are these folks anyway? How do you know if they're worth their salt (ie. what they charge for an appraisal)? They're not exactly a household name like Century 21.


There's the rub. You don't know unless your in the business of buying and selling. Many sites will try to include as much trust as possible (certs, etrust, geotrust...), but mostly they win you over with content - just like any site that sells a product or service.



_gail -> RE: Anyone selling an inactive site? (3/30/2005 14:36:45)

Great info. It's a lot to digest and I plan to read it a couple of times before asking some additional questions. But I do have one area I'd like to explore now.

Are you saying a website would be valued poorly if it's income was soley derived from AdSense-type ads and Affliate ads such a Amazon; that the content itself has little value in determining price?

thanks, gail



dpf -> RE: Anyone selling an inactive site? (3/30/2005 15:34:15)

quote:

that the content itself has little value in determining price?
gail: I think the question becomes what does this great content do in terms of bringing in income if we are talking about selling the site.



_gail -> RE: Anyone selling an inactive site? (3/30/2005 15:50:28)

quote:

gail: I think the question becomes what does this great content do in terms of bringing in income if we are talking about selling the site.


That is a good question. But it's difficult to answer because, as are most of these types of questions, we're not using actual sites as case studies.

And what about this, is it an accurate understanding?

quote:

Are you saying a website would be valued poorly if it's income was soley derived from AdSense-type ads and Affliate ads such a Amazon


I recall being involved in a similar discussion at Outfront a year or two ago (can't find the thread right now). Someone said one of the ways to determine the selling price of a website is 3 times the income, which I assume is net income. I also assume this would be valid only for sites which have had an income/history for a couple of years; and that the history would show continued growth. With growth comes more income presumably.

gail



Mojo -> RE: Anyone selling an inactive site? (3/30/2005 16:31:45)

quote:

Are you saying a website would be valued poorly if it's income was soley derived from AdSense-type ads and Affliate ads such a Amazon; that the content itself has little value in determining price?


I agree with dpf in that the content must justify itself. What good is a site that is slick, has great original content that cost $$ to produce, but it doesn't have income? For this kind of site you have to wait for a specialist type of buyer to come along - provided you don't forget to renew the domain.

Adsense sites are not valued poorly - they are just not as valuable as affiliate or merchant sites. You have to remember two things: 1) the market determines value and 2) that most Adsense sites live and die by the SERPs. If the site suddenly drops out of the top 10 your income will plummet. For this reason, buyers with even a little experience are leary about spending too much on Adsense sites. Seriously, if you can get 10 months profit out of an Adsense site your doing very good. You can read on various places online where people claim they would never sell their site for less than 24 months income and they're correct - they never sell those sites.

I wish it were different as I sell Adsense sites frequently.

Take the following site for example (not mine): thealamofilm .com

This is a site that started out focused on the recent film on the Alamo and then switched to all things Alamo. It has 2500 members in a targeted newsletter, an active forum with over 1700 users and 70,000 posts, has decent traffic, over 20k backlinks and good content. This site is claimed to generate around $350 per month in *profit*. The seller believes there is a lot of potential to monitize the site in different methods - none of which he seems to be doing.

He is asking for an amount over $4,000. He is not specific about the amount - this is a sign that he doesn't know the value of his own site. Site owners are very hesitant to state a price when they have no clue about the value for fear they are leaving a large sum of money on the table. He claims to have several offers in the $4500 range. OK.

I think if he set a buy it now price of $3000 - he would sell it quickly. The problem is he *feels* it is worth much more - and if he waits long enough, he just might find the specialty buyer - an Alamo fan with money to burn.

So far, he can't sell it.



Mojo -> RE: Anyone selling an inactive site? (3/30/2005 16:43:08)

quote:

Someone said one of the ways to determine the selling price of a website is 3 times the income, which I assume is net income. I also assume this would be valid only for sites which have had an income/history for a couple of years; and that the history would show continued growth. With growth comes more income presumably.


I would sell every site in my possession if I could get even 2 years income. Bam! Just like that.

During the last couple of Google algo changes there were a lot of people complaining that their site of several years is nowhere to be found - heck, I have one or two of those myself. Site history in search real estate means little. You could be in one day and out the next. Well, it's not quite that capricious, but it's close.

If you want 3 years income you need to come to the table with something solid. Your own product or service that is *very* profitable using only paid ads. If you need the free listings in any way your site is just not going to deliver 3 years. You shoud be able to say, "here is my widget, it make x percentage in profit for each sale, all sales come from paid ads, the market for my widget is very strong, here is the historical data, I control all price points for my widget, the future looks good" - that is worth 3 years or more.

There are always exceptions, but I havn't seen one yet. If you want more case examples, I have hundreds. I should be upfront and admit that I am working on my own appraisal site.



_gail -> RE: Anyone selling an inactive site? (3/30/2005 17:42:53)

quote:

I think if he set a buy it now price of $3000 - he would sell it quickly.


Thanks for giving an example, but to me the numbers do NOT make sense. First of all, let's assume he indeed nets a $350/month profit. That's $4200 a year. And someone would only pay $3000?! It seems to me that he'd be better off just letting the site die, and that would probably take a year or two. He'd make more money than if he sold it for $3000. Heck, that's certainly what I would do before giving a site away for nothing.

My husband and I owned several business, and it took about three years to begin to make a profit. When we sold one, we made a profit, but I"m sure it took the purchasers a few years to begin making a profit themselves. I think this is a reasonable expectation.

In the case of one business we sold, the folks didn't do as nearly a good a job as we did (at least that's what we were told by many). They eventually closed the doors. If someone else had bought it and employed the right business practices and enthusiasm, they not doubt would begin to see a profit rather than go out of business.

If a site has good content, and that site continues to grow because of it, in my way thinking that content can be considered inventory and factor into the price.

Anyway, these are my opinions which can be summed up by saying: I don't think anyone should sell a site for less than the income they make, particularly if there is a history of increased growth both in site visitors and generated income.



Taz -> RE: Anyone selling an inactive site? (3/30/2005 18:24:21)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mojo

It has 2500 members in a targeted newsletter, an active forum with over 1700 users and 70,000 posts, has decent traffic


What if you run a community forum from a domain, which has an active postership, and is a friendly online community, does that raise a sites value or?

(Great discussion BTW, most interesting and informative, kudos to all involved.)



Mojo -> RE: Anyone selling an inactive site? (3/30/2005 19:26:12)

edit - Sorry, I don't have time to spell check or proof read - dinner is calling.

gail - you made me smile with your summary... spot on! You are adding valuable comments. You also have the entrepreneurial mindset of a successful brick-and-mortar business owner. But - Web sites have a much different business model than the traditional bussinesses. Think Real estate... I mention it again at the end...

A lot of people agree with you... and don't sell their sites. Some do, but most don't. Let's imagine that you have a profitable Adsense site pulling in 5k per month. You want to sell it for 1 years income or 60k. After a buyer has confirmed your traffic, income etc, here are a few of the thoughts they may have before making an offer (speaking of an Adsense type site):

1 - What if the site drops in the SERPs?

2 - What if Adsense kicks me out?? There is a lot of paranoia going on in regards to Google giving people the boot with zero warning, holding any owed funds and nil chance for readmittance. I don't want to get into a discussion of wether or not this is a reality. It is enough already that it is a *perceived* reality.

3 - What if Adsense itself fails, or changes into something that does not work so well on the site? There is a lot of mainstream talk about click fraud lately. What if Adsense go to a Pay Per Conversion rather than Pay Per Click? Will the site still perform according to it's historical data?

4 - Who will keep writing the unique content? Search engines love unique content. Someone will need to have the skill to keep ahead of the competition.

5 - What if the site drops in the SERPs during an algo change?
You will lose a lot of money if that happens. It does not matter how long you have been golden with Google, it can happen. The owner of this site - www. europeforvisitors .com recently lost 75% of his Google traffic. Prior to that happening he had been a solid site for years. You get NO warning when this stuff happens. At least with a brick-and-mortar business if the city is going to tear up your street and limit your customer access you get a warning.

6 - Who will keep the site high up in the SERPs? This may not be an issue, but if serious competition starts to notice your profitable little corner of the net - it will be a huge concern.

7 - What if the site drops in the SERPs?
8 - What if the site drops in the SERPs?
9 - What if the site drops in the SERPs?
10 - What if the site drops in the SERPs?

The reason I repeat the drop in the SERPs is that is really what people think. I have been tracking sales, selling and buying sites on a weekly basis for over 2 years. The uncertaintity of the search engines is the single biggest deterrence to buying a site. Try borrowing 60k for a web site and see how much mileage you get... We also need to consider the reasons people sell as that always plays a part.

quote:

My husband and I owned several business, and it took about three years to begin to make a profit. When we sold one, we made a profit, but I"m sure it took the purchasers a few years to begin making a profit themselves. I think this is a reasonable expectation.


Here is a glaring difference between the web and brick-and-mortar. I have launched many dozens of small businesses online. Every single one of them was profitable on DAY ONE. Every peer of mine that I have spoken to about their web sites has experienced the same phenomenon --- Only, it's not a phenomenon. For small to mid sized businesses it really is the rule. If your smart, have skills and understand how people make decisions it is very difficult to fail.

quote:


If a site has good content, and that site continues to grow because of it, in my way thinking that content can be considered inventory and factor into the price.

Absolutely, and just like in the real world, some products are better than others - some content is more valuable than others. I recently purchased several unique articles. These articles translated into more than 30 pages of unique, fresh content. Copyright mine. I paid little over $100 for them. I spent 5 minutes writing the email to the author and another half hour adding the pages. If they turn out to make money (which they will) I can point to my content and say, "See, I have valuable content because it makes money".
If they don't make money, I can still say I have them, but they are certainly not worth the same as money making pages.

The alamo site above has nice content and such, but it is not valuable content. Pages were not all created equel.

Real estate - We have all probably head of Ray Kroc (McDonalds founder) telling the business school that he is not in the business of selling hamburgers, rather he was in the real estate business. This is a huge difference from the web where real estate is dirt cheap and changes hands at the whims of search engines. Not to mention the fact that the cost of entry is VERY LOW.

Regarding the Alamo site - Why buy it for $4000 when a skilled person could DUPLICATE it for less than half - much less.



_gail -> RE: Anyone selling an inactive site? (3/30/2005 20:57:09)

What you say really does make a lot of sense. Thank you for taking time to share your knowledge. As I mentioned earlier, there is a lot here to digest. I suppose one of the main differences between real real estate and web real estate is the risk factor.

quote:

Regarding the Alamo site - Why buy it for $4000 when a skilled person could DUPLICATE it for less than half - much less.


If that can indeed be done then you are correct, if it includes the expense and time involved for building up site traffic, getting about the same number of forum participants and having at least a similar monthly income. As an aside, a quick look at the Alamo site shows a lot left to be desired as to ad link placement and getting Google Ads to pull in less Public Service ads. With the statistics you shared about the site, he could be making more $ with what he has already. But this is another topic.

I think I'm also correct about one point: Why in the world would anyone want to sell a site for $3000 when he would most likely make 1 1/2 - 2 times that amount by just letting the site fade away. Unless I was starving or in financial trouble, I wouldn't.

Thanks again for sharing all the remarkable info.

gail




_gail -> RE: Anyone selling an inactive site? (3/30/2005 21:00:53)

oops, pressed the wrong button.



Mojo -> RE: Anyone selling an inactive site? (3/30/2005 21:24:06)

Heh - building an Alamo site did not include me time... :) I go by the IRS rules - self employed can't write off their time as an expense.

The Alamo site also goes to show that content is not equal. About the best Ads he can hope for are going to be from the Alamo Car Rental company. That said, I do think a clever person could come up with something to sell...

One reason people sell out is to upgrade. Often, site owners that buy and sell a lot will stumble across a great bargin and will need a quick infusion of cash. So, they sell a site and reinvest the money.

_gail, you brought up some excellent points. Great thread.





_gail -> RE: Anyone selling an inactive site? (3/31/2005 8:40:46)

quote:

Heh - building an Alamo site did not include me time... :) I go by the IRS rules - self employed can't write off their time as an expense.


Not quite sure what you mean. All I was saying is that if someone could build the site for half the price, it might be worth for them to buy an already established site, rather than start from scratch. They would immediately have an income, an established reputation and forum, and a site with decent traffic.

When my husband and I wanted to buy a printing business years ago, we couldn't afford the asking price of the one we wanted. At least we didn’t think we could. So we started one from scratch. What a lot of work! My husband initially kept his regular job, then came home and worked into the wee hours of the morning in our shop. It took us more than three years to begin seeing a profit; in fact we pumped our own money into it. Who knows, maybe we would have been better off buying an established business and starting right off with good clients and a positive cash flow. Then work to increase/improve business.

quote:

That said, I do think a clever person could come up with something to sell...


Ah ha! This is a key point. For example, when you ask questions (and they are good questions) like:

quote:

4 - Who will keep writing the unique content? Search engines love unique content. Someone will need to have the skill to keep ahead of the competition.


Well of course someone will. Do they expect to buy a website business and do nothing?
One can, of course, do this. I suppose that's why there are so many "sites" which really offer no content but seem to exist merely in the hope that someone stumbles upon them and clicks on google ads.

On the other hand, I have to believe there are those looking to buy a site, who have the same interest and passion as the seller for the service or product they offer. The buyers are willing and able to do what it takes to keep the site going and growing in all its aspects. There are always people who have the skills and knack to make money easily and without much effort. Hats off to them. But there are also folks willing to work to build and maintain a business, and where they receive due compensation. Hats off to them, too.



Reflect -> RE: Anyone selling an inactive site? (3/31/2005 10:02:53)

A thought that I had always had drummed into my head but I did not see mentioned. A site should have three streams of revenue. Less than that then a sites income could be taken to its knees by:

A bad algo change.
Ad revenue dries up (AdSEnse)
Product being offered starts lacking in sales
Hire a bad AM (affiliate program manager)
Advertising in the newsletter

By having three streams of revenue you always have a chance to recover.

How valid is that currently?

Take care,

Brian



_gail -> RE: Anyone selling an inactive site? (3/31/2005 10:44:22)

quote:

By having three streams of revenue you always have a chance to recover.


This makes a lot of sense. But a question: what about folks like me who are not selling products, but provide information. As far as I know, there are only two sources of income for us:

- Advertising - programs such as AdSense and display ads
- Affiliate programs

What else is there (unless you don't consider AdSense and display ads in the same category)?

thanks, gail




Reflect -> RE: Anyone selling an inactive site? (3/31/2005 11:36:44)

That is always the pondering question. I guess it comes down to your site, your budget, goals, and the audience.

Newsletters come to mind.

Forums, have a subscriber section after the user base is large enough.

Partnerships.


Ads, having multiple bases would diversify a loss potentl and might help generate some extra income.

Affiliate program not being an indie would help mitigate losses and help gain additional exposure. indie, being an independent, program VS. LinkShare (not recommending them, only an example). This way you have top flight affiliate people pushing your site. Be aware though that the program really needs to be tight prior to signing up to LinkShare.

These are just a few thoughts.

Take care,

Brian



_gail -> RE: Anyone selling an inactive site? (3/31/2005 11:45:45)

quote:

Partnerships.


What do you mean by partnerships? How do you get them?



Reflect -> RE: Anyone selling an inactive site? (3/31/2005 13:11:42)

Me, I have never had a need.

General scenario:

You have a site that sells or offers certain widgets. You find a site that heavily complements your products or content. You enter a partnership to send traffic to each other, share branding, banners/text ads etc., whatever might be a mutual benefit for both sides.

Take care,



Mojo -> RE: Anyone selling an inactive site? (3/31/2005 13:48:12)

Great points Brian.

Something I always say to potential clients, but that I only danced around in this thread is that if a site can't be profitable by paying for it's traffic (advertisements) then it is a poor business plan.

I think that is why few Adsense sites sell for BIG money. In the real world an Adsense (or other ad driven site) is like the portable hotdog stands you see in large cities. Only, you don't have a liscense to sell. You don't own any real estate and are only in your temporary location as long as the police (Google, Yahoo) don't run you out.

You can purchase a brick-and-mortar business in a great location that will drive traffic naturally. It is much more difficult to do that online - IMO, the only equivalent method available online is to purchase type-in-traffic domain names.

I run Adsense on close to a dozen sites. My best site profits between $1500 and $2500 per month. If I had to pay advertising on this site can you guess what my profit would be? Answer: I would likely lose money.

quote:

Not quite sure what you mean. All I was saying is that if someone could build the site for half the price, it might be worth for them to buy an already established site, rather than start from scratch. They would immediately have an income, an established reputation and forum, and a site with decent traffic.


Gail, no, I don't think it is worth it. Not at all. I have also had brick and mortar business and there is a HUGE difference.

Low barrier of entrance - This is what seperates virtual from real. It is often very easy to duplicate what others have done.

quote:

What do you mean by partnerships? How do you get them?


Here is the best two methods I use:

I build a site for a marketable product and earn high rankings. I then place an Ad on above the fold inviting merchants to do business with me.

My next best method is to cruise over to eBay and find members who are selling the targeted product. If they don't appear to have a strong web presence I contact them about a partnership. My best partner came from this method.



_gail -> RE: Anyone selling an inactive site? (4/1/2005 10:17:26)

quote:

run Adsense on close to a dozen sites. My best site profits between $1500 and $2500 per month.


Just curious. How old is your best site? And, if you share that type of info, what is the approximate monthly traffic?

gail



_gail -> RE: Anyone selling an inactive site? (4/1/2005 10:26:17)

quote:

Here is the best two methods I use:


I assume you're selling one or more products. Does something like this apply to a site like mine which sells nothing, but simply provides information?

gail




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