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womble -> RE: Accessibility? Do we need to spend the extra money? (4/9/2005 8:13:16)
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I too love a good debate!
I have to admit my own site isn’t truly accessible, mainly because I’m only just starting out in web design and given the timescales I was given to work with by the rest of the committee (we need it done yesterday), as I was only just getting my head round the ins and outs of HTML rather than letting FP do all the work, and hadn’t got to grips with CSS etc, my solution was a compromise. It’s a relatively small site, so doing a text only version of it as well wasn’t too much of a problem.
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- How come MSN (and every other large corp) does not abide to these accessibility standards?
Ignorance? My bet though would be that as long as the money keeps rolling in they don’t care.
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- Why should I spend time/money making my site accessible, if the turn around does not make it worth it?
Okay, in business you always have to look at the bottom like, but like Tony says, we should do it because it's the right thing to do not simply to avoid lawsuits.
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- Why build websites for all legacy browsers, Netscape 3.2, MSIE 4.0, etc. ?
Interesting point, and this is one I’m battling with at the moment. The first version of my site isn’t fully accessible. I’ve used layout tables to keep the columns neat and to stop the graphics wandering all over the place, but just as soon as I get a chance I’m going to be reworking my site to make it more accessible. The question is, do I use strict XHTML and CSS, making my site potentially inaccessible to those using legacy browsers, or do I compromise and use transitional XHTML and lose the benefits of using CSS?
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- Why do only some of the walk/stop signals at crosswalks have sounds? And others do not? Maybe it is because it isn't worth the time?
I can only presume that again it’s financial, though here in the UK when local authorities put in new crossings they should know better than not to have sounds.
And on to Donkey’s comments….
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like dpf I'm a bit mutton
Well, you’d got us all fooled there Donkey, thinking you were an equine. Now we find you’re related to Spooky! [sm=lol.gif]
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in the UK we are quick to categorise even the slightest disability and make special provisions for the disabled person that in some cases are not necessary.
Interesting point. I recently started a poll on a forum I’m a moderator on for the neurological condition that’s caused me a lot of my problems, asking if people considered themselves to be disabled, and opened a right can of worms! The official definition according to the DDA is “a physical or mental impairment which has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on his ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities." Now obviously that’s open to interpretation up to a point, because then, how do you define ‘substantial’? but, the Act does also provide guidance on what constitutes a substantial effect. Yes, there are ‘PC’ councils etc out there who make ridiculously ill-informed decisions and in doing so often negate the positive steps that legislation like the DDA is trying to implement, but they need educating just as much, if not more so, than the general public.
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awarded an orange disabled sticker so he could park virtually anywhere without paying.
In the vast majority of car parks now, having a blue badge (they changed the colour) doesn’t mean you don’t have to pay. It just means that you get to park closer to the shop or whatever. But, you can’t necessarily tell just from looking at someone whether they do have a genuine disability, and yes, people do make judgements just on what they see. You say disability and they expect someone to be in a wheelchair, or using a walking stick. An ex-colleague of mine has a blue badge, though she looks perfectly healthy. She can walk. She’s only in her thirties. She looks fine. But, she has a serious heart problem and is waiting to have a triple bypass. If she walks more than 50 yards or so without stopping she gets severe angina. In part it’s a matter of educating people, and I think that kids these days are taught a lot more in school about disability. In part I suppose it’s because disabled children these days are more likely to be in mainstream education, rather than hidden away in ‘special’ schools, so children grow up with more experience of disabled people. Of course the other problem is that the system is open to abuse; GPs who will happy sign a patients application form just to keep them quiet and out of the surgery.
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I think we are in danger of the same sort of thing happening on line, the majority finding they are de-prioritised in favour of the pseudo-disabled people like someone with very slight colour blindness.
I’m not quite sure what you mean by “the majority finding they are de-prioritised”, this though, is I think is where the biggest problem lies, with the pseudo-disabled as you put it (actually I quite like that description). One of the biggest potential problems that disabled people face is those who see illness or a slight physical problem as an easy way to get what they want. Take for example the proposed crack-down on Incapacity Benefit. There are so many who abuse the system by claiming they’re incapable of work when in reality they don’t want to work, that the government’s talking about cracking down on incapacity benefit and making it a flat rate payment for all new claimants, rather than the current tiered system whereby there are different rates. Okay they may have a problem, but it may often be less serious than they make out, but tThe fact is though that there is government support if you know where to look for it to help disabled people get back into work, and that, if the system was working right, should weed out those genuinely unable to work from the ones who simply don’t want to.
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For instance if I were totally blind and profoundly deaf how could I be given equal access to any web site?
Like Tony says, there’s a limit to what you can do, and someone with that level of disability would in all probability have some sort of support package in place, for example a carer, who could access websites on their behalf.
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So once you recognise that there is a limit to this, who decides where the limit is set? It is all very well trying for "universal access" but the economic considerations cannot be ignored. This all has a price, and someone has to pay for it.
This is where the DDA comes in again. Under the DDA service providers and businesses are required to make ‘reasonable adjustments’. So it is recognised that what’s appropriate for a large multi-national may not be feasible when it comes to a small trader. Having said that, I’m not sure where the law stands on websites though, because in the main, reasonable adjustments relates to physical changes.
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We should do it because it's the right thing to do not simply to avoid lawsuits, however I'd be naive if I said that is probably not what's on most CEO's minds when they consider disability and web accessibility.
I agree entirely, and much as we’d like it to be, the world’s never going to be perfect.
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One thing for sure is that past experience plays a very important role when taking a side with the accessibility issue.
True. I was born with a congenital condition, which up until my teenage years caused me very few problems. Even once I started having more problems, I didn’t consider myself disabled. I could still do most things. Okay, on a bad day I couldn’t walk too far, but I planned my life around the good days. Then, around four years ago, things got worse, and I had to admit that things I’d been able to do in the past I could no longer do and I also started losing hearing and some vision. I have a blue badge, though it took my district nurse about three years to persuade me that I ought to apply for one. It took her even longer to persuade me I should claim DLA. I hate the ‘disabled’ label. I’m me first, and yes, my disabilities are part of who I am, but it’s not the most important thing about me. In the end it’s just semantics. To say I’m disabled is a lot quicker than trying to explain my medical conditions, and those who know me know that the day-to-day problems I have are just part of me being me.
Like Tony I’ve seen the impact of, often unintentional, discrimination against disabled people. Most often, discrimination comes from a lack of understanding, but like Tony says, it needn’t be that difficult to implement. Okay, they’re big organisations, but organisation’s such as the RNID and RNIB both have accessible sites which still have graphics, still look good, but they’re accessible to people with special requirements.
I know I’ve rambled on quite enough, and well done if you’re still awake at this point, and I was going to launch into my equal opps speech, but I’ll spare you from that! [;)]
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