RE: Accessibility? Do we need to spend the extra money?

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RE: Accessibility? Do we need to spend the extra money?

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All Forums >> Web Development >> Accessibility >> RE: Accessibility? Do we need to spend the extra money?

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spitfire Posts: 424 Joined: 8/6/2005 Status: offline	RE: Accessibility? Do we need to spend the extra money? - 8/7/2005 3:52:40 quote: Actually the old machine died I do hope it was nothing that Window-Eyes said . Frankly, this software doesn't seem to be all that popular in the UK. Our clients ask us to fund the purchase of JAWS and HAL (the screen-reader part of Supernova). The last time we were asked for W-E was about four years ago. (in reply to jaybee)


jaybee Posts: 14191 Joined: 10/7/2003 From: Berkshire, UK Status: offline	RE: Accessibility? Do we need to spend the extra money? - 8/7/2005 5:36:12 No, it wasn't WEs fault. The machine was just flagging under the load of design work, gave a shudder, and expired. I installed WE originally just to see how it worked. All my experience in the past has been with Supernova and a couple of brushes with Jaws. We found that most of our students preferred the former though so we went with that one. Last year I did have a chance to play around with a new scanner that has a reader built in along with sound, so you can put a newspaper on it and off it goes. Very impressed. It was extremely accurate. The chap who tested it out for us had it for a week and didn't want to give it back. < Message edited by jaybee -- 8/7/2005 5:37:35 > _____________________________ If it ain't broke..... fix it until it is. GAWDS Now where did I put that Doctype? (in reply to spitfire)


spitfire Posts: 424 Joined: 8/6/2005 Status: offline	RE: Accessibility? Do we need to spend the extra money? - 8/7/2005 9:21:00 quote: Last year I did have a chance to play around with a new scanner that has a reader built in along with sound, so you can put a newspaper on it and off it goes. Very impressed. It was extremely accurate. The chap who tested it out for us had it for a week and didn't want to give it back. Ought to be good, probably cost between 1,500-3,000 quid. That equates to 1 to 2 talking computers complete with scanner and OCR software. It's a less than subtle game the suppliers play. Let them have it for a while, then threaten to take it back. If only I had a v.small donation for my charity every time an applicant phones and says: "Now that I've tried a reading machine, I can't live without it. The supplier says I can keep it a bit longer, provided I apply to you for the money to buy it. Please, please help me because if it had to go back, it would be like losing my right arm." or left arm if you like, just to be entirely politically correct. Now, you can probably guess what I say to the supplier... (in reply to jaybee)


spitfire Posts: 424 Joined: 8/6/2005 Status: offline	RE: Accessibility? Do we need to spend the extra money? - 8/7/2005 10:09:07 A...n...d... then I say to the applicant: I can offer you a computer system with screen-reading software including a scanner with Optical Character Recognition software so that you can read your newspaper and any other printed material. In additon you will have a full "talking" computer, receive a free "talking" CD on how to set up your computer, how to look after it and tutorials for complete beginners to computing. After that you can visit our website for many further tutorials and we are available to provide telephone or e-mail support. That will cost the charity about the same as the cheaper reading system. If you have been looking at the most expensive system, then we may be able to offer the computer package to one of your mates as well. Upshot is - we don't do many reading systems. (in reply to jaybee)


jaybee Posts: 14191 Joined: 10/7/2003 From: Berkshire, UK Status: offline	RE: Accessibility? Do we need to spend the extra money? - 8/7/2005 10:51:48 Yes, problem is though, the scanner is nicely portable so he could take it with him wherever he went. But yes, you're right, it cost a right arm, and a leg and a left arm as well. It does seem to be a rip off. The RNIB charge a fortune for kit too. When we were setting up 5 stations for access in my training centre I got a quote from them and nearly passed out. We were able to set up 2 stations complete with all the kit, 21" monitors and Supernova for the price of just one of their machines. _____________________________ If it ain't broke..... fix it until it is. GAWDS Now where did I put that Doctype? (in reply to spitfire)


spitfire Posts: 424 Joined: 8/6/2005 Status: offline	RE: Accessibility? Do we need to spend the extra money? - 8/7/2005 11:51:38 Ah, Supernova - another red flag word. Excellent for resource centres where a computer may be used by people with varying degrees of sight loss. It is, however, three/four pieces of separate software combined: Lunar - screen magnifier (Lunar Plus - magnification with just a tad of voice-over) Hal - screen-reader Cipher - Braille translator. and it commands a commensurate price tag. My dilemma is when a pupil from a training/resource centre comes to me and demands a 21" monitor and Supernova. Nothing else will do because that's what I use at so-and-so centre and my tutor told me that's what I need. When that pupil has no useful vision and has no Braille skills, then why does s/he need a 21" monitor and Supernova. The potential donors I would write to would laugh in my face. If I cannot persuade the applicant that the size of the monitor doesn't matter and the only part of Supernova you really need is Hal, then I just have to turn them down - because I know it would be impossible to get funding for the kit. If relevant, please pass this on to your peeps and any rehab/social workers involved. Many thanks - I don't like to have to turn people down for this reason. (in reply to jaybee)


d a v e Posts: 4179 Joined: 7/24/2002 From: England (but live in Finland now) Status: offline	RE: Accessibility? Do we need to spend the extra money? - 8/7/2005 12:06:16 is there no open source stuff for people to use? _____________________________ David Prescott Gekko web design (in reply to spitfire)


jaybee Posts: 14191 Joined: 10/7/2003 From: Berkshire, UK Status: offline	RE: Accessibility? Do we need to spend the extra money? - 8/7/2005 12:11:06 No, we weren't telling them to buy it. Far too pricey. We had a specialist advisor who came in and talked to them about equipment for home use and how to get funding. Being part of a college meant that if they were students we could also get funds for some equipment for them. We were a learndirect center and we also did ECDL, Microsoft, Comptia etc. The 5 machines were multi purpose. The idea was that the centre would offer the same training regardless of ability. We got pretty close. The 21" monitors meant we could take any level of sight as well as wheelchair users, some of whom were in the (never sure what they're called) wheelbeds? and couldn't get close enough to the desk, so we could magnify everything. We chose Supernova on the advice of several of our blind users who hated Jaws. We got funding for 5 copies in the centre after I put a Seeda bid in. All the Berkshire libraries went down the same route so if users didn't have the kit at home, they could use the free terminals at the library with familiar software. Got the whole lot sorted out and working, trained up all the library staff and then the college decided to cut costs and shut the centre down. _____________________________ If it ain't broke..... fix it until it is. GAWDS Now where did I put that Doctype? (in reply to spitfire)


spitfire Posts: 424 Joined: 8/6/2005 Status: offline	RE: Accessibility? Do we need to spend the extra money? - 8/7/2005 12:29:56 Agreed jaybee As I said excellent for multi purpose, funders quite like to think their money is going towards helping lots of people. Hopeless for raising funds for an individual. We have to depend to a large extent on appeals to organisations in the individual's locality. The home counties are notoriously difficult in that respect. Hope those 5 kits found good homes. d a v e quote: is there no open source stuff for people to use? There's quite a lot of low cost (�80) assistive technology around and some open source. Open source is not always ideal unless there is an ongoing user support function. But, if someone has a preconceived idea of what they need because they have been assessed as needing a particular product (which costs the same as a full standard computer system, I may add), our hands are tied. (in reply to jaybee)


jaybee Posts: 14191 Joined: 10/7/2003 From: Berkshire, UK Status: offline	RE: Accessibility? Do we need to spend the extra money? - 8/7/2005 15:39:12 quote: Hope those 5 kits found good homes. Well I tried. I shifted them all into the main college. We put two in the Ormonde Resource Centre which caters for adults with physical disabilities, two in the learning resource centre (college library) and I believe the 5th was due to go into the student services area. Whether it did or not I have no idea, I left. Oh, I had a double sided braille printer as well. Last I heard that was in a cupboard. _____________________________ If it ain't broke..... fix it until it is. GAWDS Now where did I put that Doctype? (in reply to spitfire)


spitfire Posts: 424 Joined: 8/6/2005 Status: offline	RE: Accessibility? Do we need to spend the extra money? - 8/7/2005 17:37:29 quote: Oh, I had a double sided braille printer as well. Last I heard that was in a cupboard. (in reply to jaybee)