The purpose of alt attributes for images as far as the handicapped are concerned is to help them understand what's on the web page. An alt attribute for a <hr> doesn't help anybody with anything.

FP doesn't write alt attributes into bullets or horizontal rules because there's no sense in it.

I would expect that these insane specs are inflexible, therefore, you will have to either go without a theme, or avoid using bullets and horizontal rules.

Once you have one of the images on your page with the alt text, use copy/paste to reuse it again.

Linda

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New Frontpage Web Templates: Rose1 (Invitation) and White Rose

I used such a browser a few years ago while being blindfolded and you would be amazed how much those add to the "reading" experience.

Hearing:
"A list of cities New York Chicago Los Angeles"

Is a lot different than hearing:

"A list of cities - one, New York two, Chicago three, Los Angeles"

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Gil Harvey
The Host Factory
Resellers are our speciality
"Is there another word for synonym?"

I guess my only recourse is to abandon the graphical themes. What a shame that everyone else has to see bland pages now.

quote:

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Originally posted by davebukouricz:
I think though that the government contractor may be missing the point: the idea isn't to take away something from the general populace, it is to enhance the usability of our sites for that portion of our population that can't interact in the traditional way.

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I don't see why we have to "take away" anything???????

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Gil Harvey
The Host Factory
Resellers are our speciality
"Is there another word for synonym?"

You do not need to take away your graphics or not use a theme!

A text-only version of the site should be provided for users of alternative browsers.

Check out http://www.plumworks.org.uk and click the "Text Only" version from the left nav.

That's the best solution. The colours are the most readable for the visually impaired, the colour combinations are changeable to suit their abilities and preferences, and it's *totally* dynamic.

--Bri

"decorative graphics with no other function have empty alt descriptions (alt=''), but they never have missing alt descriptions"

Perhaps it is not reasonable to expect blind users to have to wonder if they are missing out on graphical elements because the reader software tells them "there are 18 graphical elements with no descriptions". I wish more than anything to be able to enable accessibility without sacrificing appearance for the sake of 508 compliance. That is the whole reason for asking in forums, chat rooms and Microsoft support if there is any "reasonable" way at all to do it without losing the visually appealing graphical themes.

I appreciate everyone's input and am still very open to suggestions.

Thanks again.

quote:

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Originally posted by GC:
I am afraid that providing text-based alternatives for every single page on our site would be WAAAAAY to much work and needlessly cost tax-payers a lot of money -- not only for the initial effort but to maintain two versions of every single page!

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I'm not understanding this for some reason. ALT text for ALL graphics has been required in all html documents since version 2 (or before, 2 is where I started), so what is being "added"?

quote:

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In response to davebukouricz, I whole-heartedly agree that it is not the point to take away something from the general populace, but what choice do we have? After all, who are we to decide which rules to follow and which not to follow?! The fact that they included the following rule in the 508 compliance at all means they must have a reason for it:

"decorative graphics with no other function have empty alt descriptions (alt=''), but they never have missing alt descriptions"

Perhaps it is not reasonable to expect blind users to have to wonder if they are missing out on graphical elements because the reader software tells them "there are 18 graphical elements with no descriptions". I wish more than anything to be able to enable accessibility without sacrificing appearance for the sake of 508 compliance. That is the whole reason for asking in forums, chat rooms and Microsoft support if there is any "reasonable" way at all to do it without losing the visually appealing graphical themes.

---

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Gil Harvey
The Host Factory
Resellers are our speciality
"Is there another word for synonym?"

I should also say that after further review, I have realized that the actual letter of the law does not require "decorative graphics with no other function have emply alt descriptions." -- that statement is merely an interpretation of the law by accessibility experts.

http://www.sitepointforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21561

We always welcome input from all resources. Don't ever hesitate to post a link to something that may be helpful. ... at least the legal and ethical ones.

Linda

ps - GC, I'm a bit confused here. (nothing new) but from the previous posts, it seems that the readers will automatically pick up bullets and horizontal rules... you don't need to have alt text for these, so where is the problem with using a theme?

[This message has been edited by LB (edited 05-21-2001).]

The problem with using themes is that the screen readers will not treat horizontal rules and bullets as what they are but instead treat them as unknown graphics. A blind user may assume they are missing out on some content.

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Gil Harvey
The Host Factory
Resellers are our speciality
"Is there another word for synonym?"

Thanks!

One of the provisions of 508 is to allow users to skip that repetitive navigation. Usuaslly this is done with a transparent image link at the beginning of the navbar that is anchored to the starting point of the content. Easy enough usually, but with themes, I can get an image up there, but not the code that goes with it. If you go to the Bobby site, for example, early on in the code they give you the option to skip the links and go to content:
<td valign="bottom"><a "#topcontent"><img src="../graphics/sitewide/dot_clear.gif" width="0" height="0" border="0" alt="[Follow this link to go to content]" /></a>

I don't know how to do this in themes.

Linda

quote:

---

Originally posted by GC:
I am afraid that providing text-based alternatives for every single page on our site would be WAAAAAY to much work and needlessly cost tax-payers a lot of money -- not only for the initial effort but to maintain two versions of every single page! In response to davebukouricz, I whole-heartedly agree that it is not the point to take away something from the general populace, but what choice do we have? After all, who are we to decide which rules to follow and which not to follow?! .

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The Text Only version is a SCRIPT... it requires no time, no effort, and little cash outlay...

It seems your problem isn't one of themes, but of using shared borders. In folders view select Tools > Web Settings > Advanced > Check "show documents in hidden directories". You'll now be able to work directly on the shared border files.

Linda

You are amazing! I can't thank you enough. I don't know if I would have ever figured that out on my own. Thanks again.

Bill