Client Site Orientation Presentations

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Client Site Orientation Presentations

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Nicole Posts: 2854 Joined: 9/15/2004 From: Nambucca / Kempsey, Australia Status: offline	Client Site Orientation Presentations - 5/18/2005 3:42:03 I don't know how many of you provide client/staff website orientation/familiarisation upon completing a site, but it's something i've been offering in my contracts and i'm now leaning away from doing that. I've just returned from one of these presentations where, not only am i tired from talking so much in the 45 minute presentation, but i've also a new list of minor changes to the site as a result. Add to this the fact that i've also been offering a free month's worth of maintenance upon completion, and that adds up to a lot of work for me for no real return (money). Individually i consider both of these offers have merit, and "may" land me a contract over a competitor if quotes were similar, but together i now believe they're a recipe for disaster. There were only 7 staff members at this presentation, but all had opinions, most of which were agreed to by the boss (who is really my client, not the staff). So, i'm wondering if you guys offer anything like this and if so whether you've struck similar problems in the past. Nicole _____________________________


Tailslide Posts: 6364 Joined: 5/10/2005 From: Out here on the raggedy edge Status: offline	RE: Client Site Orientation Presentations - 5/18/2005 4:36:30 I offer free maintenance once the site's on-line for a set period, but ONLY non-structural stuff like changing the odd bit of text or photos. Any structural changes like new pages, complex graphics etc incur cost. I get them to sign off on this before the site goes live so they can't wheedle out of it. I don't mind fiddling with the odd bit of text as it doesn't take long and it's worth the goodwill. (in reply to Nicole)


jaybee Posts: 14207 Joined: 10/7/2003 From: Berkshire, UK Status: offline	RE: Client Site Orientation Presentations - 5/18/2005 6:32:29 quote: provide client/staff website orientation/familiarisation upon completing The only time I would ever contemplate doing that is if the site was CMS or if the client was taking over the maintenance. So in effect I give them training and the cost of that training time is included in the original quote. You are asking for trouble doing presentations like that. Every single person there will have different ideas as to what should go on the site and if they're going to be involved then they should have been at the design stage. _____________________________ If it ain't broke..... fix it until it is. GAWDS Now where did I put that Doctype? (in reply to Tailslide)


Nicole Posts: 2854 Joined: 9/15/2004 From: Nambucca / Kempsey, Australia Status: offline	RE: Client Site Orientation Presentations - 5/18/2005 21:15:45 Hi Helena, My offer sound similar to yours, only minor changes and mostly that's all yesterday's presentation uncovered. There is one significant modification, that's the inclusion of one new page which i'll contact the client about and indicate that it'll attract a charge as the site has been completed. The goodwill you mention is important i know, especially when a particular client can have the potential to provide you with more and nore clients, but i guess there comes a time when you have to put your foot down in these situations and just stick to the letter of the contract. Nicole _____________________________ (in reply to Tailslide)


Nicole Posts: 2854 Joined: 9/15/2004 From: Nambucca / Kempsey, Australia Status: offline	RE: Client Site Orientation Presentations - 5/18/2005 21:26:39 Hi Jaybee, quote: You are asking for trouble doing presentations like that. Every single person there will have different ideas as to what should go on the site and if they're going to be involved then they should have been at the design stage. Can't disagree with you at all on that. I'm still learning as you know, and will uncover these loopholes in my contract as i go i guess. I'm not a very tough person but i think i'll have to learn to be if this business is going to succeed and i'm not letting people walk all over me. These changes suggested yesterday aren't that major and i think i'll do them as it's mostly my fault that i let it get this far. As mentioned in the other response i'll contact the client regarding the additional page they now want. The reason in this case i felt it was important to provide this service was because i KNEW there were staff members there who needed to learn a little about the new features their site has now, as it turns out the main offender in that department was the only person not at the presentation. I guess i have to learn that when my job is done, it's done and whatever happens afterwards has nothing to do with me. Just on content management that you mention though, it seems to me that more and more clients are asking for this up-front rather than having a designer maintain a site for them. I'll have to study up on content management i know, but it would seem to me as if large sites as this one was would require regular updating and maintenance from a designer moreso than a minor site that can do their own. I was basing a lot on my targetted clients being those that would provide me with enough maintenance work to finance me through tough times. Was that a dream? Thanks for your response. Nicole _____________________________ (in reply to jaybee)


jaybee Posts: 14207 Joined: 10/7/2003 From: Berkshire, UK Status: offline	RE: Client Site Orientation Presentations - 5/19/2005 5:24:36 quote: large sites as this one was would require regular updating and maintenance from a designer No, that's the perfect scenario for a CMS. Each section look after their own pages and keep them up to date. Problem with you doing it is, yes, great for when you have nothing else on but how often is their need for changes going to coincide with your slack periods? You can't just leave it to one side until you're ready. You can guarantee that it'll come in just when you're up to your eyeballs with a new site and they want the mods done immediately due to legislation changes or whatever. You also don't want to find you're locked into a contract making loads of changes that leaves you no time for new work. I'm assuming that your maintenance contracts are a lot less lucrative than your development. _____________________________ If it ain't broke..... fix it until it is. GAWDS Now where did I put that Doctype? (in reply to Nicole)


jaybee Posts: 14207 Joined: 10/7/2003 From: Berkshire, UK Status: offline	RE: Client Site Orientation Presentations - 5/19/2005 5:37:36 You might find this useful http://www.cmswatch.com/ContentManagement/ There are plenty of free CMS around. Content Seed links into Front Page and the developer, Chris, comes on here. _____________________________ If it ain't broke..... fix it until it is. GAWDS Now where did I put that Doctype? (in reply to jaybee)


Kitka Posts: 2520 Joined: 1/31/2002 From: Australia Status: offline	RE: Client Site Orientation Presentations - 5/19/2005 5:47:43 quote: There are plenty of free CMS around. Content Seed links into Front Page and the developer, Chris, comes on here. Regrettably, ContentSeed is no longer free. Chris admits on his site that he made it free in the development stage to get valuable feedback from people like OutFronters, but unless you downloaded it then, you are out of luck. _____________________________ Kitka It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious. (in reply to jaybee)


Tailslide Posts: 6364 Joined: 5/10/2005 From: Out here on the raggedy edge Status: offline	RE: Client Site Orientation Presentations - 5/19/2005 6:12:39 I haven't looked into the CMS thing too much yet - all the ones I've seen look fairly complicated from a clients point of view (ok, and mine). Of the sites I've done so far, one has been a problem (much like yours) because I didn't lay the ground rules out properly (my first paid for site), one does the updating themselves - I went in and taught them how to use a html editor and xhtml - they're just updating a news page so it's not too complicated for them. The others I update where necessary. Since I started being firm about what I'll do and what I won't do for free the most I've had to do is the odd phone number which is fine. I find that getting sign off on everything from the design, to the copy, to the graphics helps concentrate their minds! I think that where you might have gone wrong is getting a big group of people in a room - they'll all be looking to score points and show how smart they are - "ooh look at me, I've got an idea!" grrrrrrrrrr _____________________________ Little Blue Plane Web Design \| Land Rover project (in reply to Kitka)


dpf Posts: 7126 Joined: 11/12/2003 From: India-napolis Status: offline	RE: Client Site Orientation Presentations - 5/19/2005 7:41:12 quote: gone wrong is getting a big group of people in a room - they'll all be looking to score points and show how smart they are - "ooh look at me, I've got an idea!" grrrrrrrrrr exactly..and.."those idiots in management should have given me input in the first place - well now is my chance to show them what ought to be on this site". If you had it to do over again: 1. the orientation is a training session with a fee. 2. orientation is done after signoff and final payment - that way, during the session, anyone suggesting changes/additions/revisions - you simply say "discuss that thru your chain of cammand and if they agree, they can submit a Change Request Form to me ( which triggers a fee). we all learn as we go. BTW, I find that maintenance with a good hourly rate is lucrative and it opens the door beyond those who dont have a site to include those who have an older one _____________________________ Dan (in reply to Tailslide)