Father's Day gift - dad's new website! (Full Version)

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petquarter -> Father's Day gift - dad's new website! (6/21/2005 11:35:14)

Hi everyone!

I posted while back about creating a site for my dad.

I presented it to him and he was thrilled. I realize that it's pretty basic, but it's a start. It was a little challenging for me because I wanted rounded corners and more of an industrial feel.

He thinks is great, but I know it needs some tweaking. I also think he needs a nicer logo.

Keep in mind that I've just added content to be humorous and as part of his gift. He will be providing me with text and photos to replace what I've done.

Let me know what you think I should change.

Thanks in advance.

Here's Dad's site: King's Bobcat




hostbreak -> RE: Father's Day gift - dad's new website! (6/21/2005 13:55:08)

Wow nice work it Looks OK to me!



womble -> RE: Father's Day gift - dad's new website! (6/22/2005 5:17:16)

Hi Cherie,

Nice site! Just a few minor niggles. I know you said they weren't the final photos, but the majority of your images don't have alt tags. Also, the second image on the 'technical' page is not very clear at all (though I presume that's not the final image?).

You have a doctype in there, but it's in the body. It should be at the top of your html document, above the <html> <head>, i.e.:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">
<html>
<head>
<!-- #BeginEditable "doctitle" -->
<title>"King's Bobcat"</title>
<!-- #EndEditable -->
<META NAME="description" CONTENT="King's Bobcat - Professional Piledriving and Concrete Work">
etc.

It's only a small site, so it's not a huge problem now, but there's no indication either on the pages (no visible page title/banner, whatever you want to call it) or highlighted in the navigation of which page you're on.

Also, for the sake of symmetry, I would centre the copyright information at the foot of the page (and put the copyright info on all of the pages).

Nice looking site though - makes my father's day gift of a bag of toffee and subscription to a boating magazine look a little boring! [:D]



golfer -> RE: Father's Day gift - dad's new website! (6/22/2005 5:22:48)

Hi

Haven't had time to have a look at your Dads site.

I just wanted to say that is a wonderful idea. A very personal gift that has taken work and thought. Buying off a shelf is not nearly as good.

Congratulations.



Mike54 -> RE: Father's Day gift - dad's new website! (6/22/2005 6:18:17)

Well Cherie, I will say it's a good idea and a nice job. Just a couple of things, I believe on the "About Us" page you mean to say life-like rather than life-life and I would suggest a new logo sooner rather than later as the one you're using is the registered trademark of Bobcat. Unless of course you have their permission to use it. [;)]



petquarter -> RE: Father's Day gift - dad's new website! (6/23/2005 0:35:53)

Hello!

Thanks for all the suggestions! I am trying to add the doctype, but for some reason it moves the left nav table up and shortens it. I'll play around with it and get it right.

Also, thanks for pointing out the bobcat trademark issue. Yes, it was temporary. My brother is designing the logo, so hopefully we will have that soon. For now I've removed the copyright comments on the bottom.

My dad is totally thrilled with his new site and now he is telling EVERYONE that his daughter designs web sites!! As much as I would love to accept the referrals he will send my way, I don't feel equipped right now to "perform" on demand. I absolutely LOVE designing sites and it gives me so much joy to do so. What would you guys suggest for someone like myself if I wanted to create a web design business. There's so much I don't know, but I have a passion for this type of work and would love to continue to pursue it. I know there are lots of sites with tons of info, but for a "hands on" gal like myself, I get quite bored reading and would rather be doing. I just learn quicker this way. Any resources that are user friendly out there?

Thanks! Cherie



golfer -> RE: Father's Day gift - dad's new website! (6/23/2005 4:29:34)

quote:

What would you guys suggest for someone like myself if I wanted to create a web design business. There's so much I don't know, but I have a passion for this type of work and would love to continue to pursue it. I know there are lots of sites with tons of info, but for a "hands on" gal like myself, I get quite bored reading and would rather be doing. I just learn quicker this way. Any resources that are user friendly out there?


Hi Petquarter

I joined this forum in January this year and at that time had made one web site. Just like you I like hands on learning rather than reading. (Always seem to forget what I have read very quickly).

I still mess around playing with the software and read the help files when I have to. The biggest aid to my learning is being on this forum.

Believe me I don't understand that much but I certainly am more aware of web design and the business whether or not you do it professionally or as a hobby.

The people here are very friendly and incredibly helpful even to basic learners like myself.

I contribute by keeping the members in some sort of order. My quiet subdued personality assists me in this task.[;)]

So in answer to your question; this forum is a good learning tool. Use the search tool and if you can't find something just ask.

Hope to see you around.[:)]



Tailslide -> RE: Father's Day gift - dad's new website! (6/23/2005 5:03:54)

Hi Cherie

If you're serious about designing websites for a living then you're going to have quite a learning curve on your hands! I'd take advantage of that learning period to really go for it - start again basically. Look to use at least HTML 4.01 strict (preferably XHTML 1.0 strict) as your code standard and learn CSS. Move away from table-based structures completely - use the CSS to lay out the page. Look into accessibility in websites as this is the "big thing" at the moment and read all the quality web pages on design, CSS etc.

This might seem like a big jump - but if you're serious about it then this will give you a firm basis to build on. Table-based designs are not ideal - FrontPage has it's place and it's good for that - but I'd advise moving away from it if you plan on turning pro!

It's almost a full-time job keeping up with the new developments in web design - so I recommend giving yourself the best start by learning the very latest techniques - it'll be tough to start with but really really worth it in the long run.

Also you must download and use Firefox as your main browser especially when you're building websites. Also download Opera which is standard compliant too. IE browsers are not standards-compliant and sites will need tweaking to a certain extent to work on them and still be standards-compliant themselves.

Sites to look at:
http://academ.hvcc.edu/~kantopet/index.php Useful basic Tutorials
http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/ More useful basic tutorials
http://www.alistapart.com/ If you're a web designer then you read this website!
http://www.w3.org/ The W3C - rather dry reading but it's got the HTML validator which you'll need
http://www.456bereastreet.com/ Useful reading especially about accessibility
http://www.accessify.com/default.asp Tips on accessibility
http://www.stunicholls.myby.co.uk/index.html For CSS inspiration
http://www.csszengarden.com/ More CSS inspiration
http://css.maxdesign.com.au/ Great CSS layout tutorials and CSS menus to copy and paste.



hostbreak -> RE: Father's Day gift - dad's new website! (6/23/2005 10:53:55)

Well I agree with TailSlide he's right you need to work with CSS it has a bright future



golfer -> RE: Father's Day gift - dad's new website! (6/23/2005 11:54:10)

quote:

TailSlide he's right


Careful Hostbreak. Tailslide is one hell of a man.[;)][;)][;)]



Tailslide -> RE: Father's Day gift - dad's new website! (6/23/2005 13:15:30)

quote:

ORIGINAL: golfer

quote:

TailSlide he's right


Careful Hostbreak. Tailslide is one hell of a man.[;)][;)][;)]


[img]http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/more/bigs/e088.gif[/img]



petquarter -> RE: Father's Day gift - dad's new website! (6/24/2005 0:53:36)

Thanks Golfer & Tailslide!

I will definately follow your advice. I need to feel 100% confident that I know what I'm doing before I claim to design a professional web site. I know CSS is something I need to learn and with this site and the resources you've given me, I can't wait to get started.

I'm sure I'll have lots of questions once I begin delving into all of this info.





Tailslide -> RE: Father's Day gift - dad's new website! (6/24/2005 3:00:11)

quote:

ORIGINAL: petquarter

I'm sure I'll have lots of questions once I begin delving into all of this info.



Don't worry - I've been using CSS for websites for 2 and a half years and I'm far from an expert and I'm still asking questions. It's a constant process and at times frustrating - but there's usually an answer or a workaround there somewhere.

Just reading some of those websites can be inspirational.

Two others I forgot - great gurus of CSS webdesign:

Zeldman
Eric Meyer

Don't worry if you don't understand everything they're on about immediately - just get an idea of the issues and the understanding will follow once you're more experienced.

Good luck! (or should that be Bon Chance!)




womble -> RE: Father's Day gift - dad's new website! (6/24/2005 4:19:52)

Also:

A List Apart
Accessify.com

Both are excellent. Accessify.com also has a wizard that you can use to create CSS based navigation.

Another great book is "Web Standards Solutions: The Markup and Style Handbook" by Dan Cederholm. It not only explains why standards compliant is better, but gives examples of the various ways the same thing can be acheived using different methods, and the advantages and disadvantages of each.

As for Ian's earlier comment - quiet and subdued!? [image]http://www.ddeaf.org.uk/forum/images/smiles/smiles2/rofl6.gif[/image]



golfer -> RE: Father's Day gift - dad's new website! (6/24/2005 5:37:46)

As your learning system is similar to mine you may wish to get underneath the skin of web design without using CSS to start with.

Back in January I asked on this forum what software I should use. Here is the thread.

http://www.frontpagewebmaster.com/m-248347/key-software/tm.htm#248347

If you are confident enough to go straight into CSS then do so. The others on this thread , I believe, are right about using it.

In my opinion it depends on your current level of knowledge and how keen you are to get going with web design on the creative side.

Like you. before I even drew breath with my first site people were asking me to build sites for them.

Good luck.



Tailslide -> RE: Father's Day gift - dad's new website! (6/24/2005 6:48:46)

My point was that it's now's exactly the time to start learning rather than try to jump right in and do it professionally. We're not talking years here!

CSS is completely new to you - and will be a steep learning curve which will take a while - but you might as well do it now if you're going to do this for a living. If it was just for fun then - I'd agree totally with Golfer - do what's easiest, least hassle for you. As it's for a possible profession then you should do what'll serve you (and your clients) best in the long run.

The way forward with web design is CSS and ultimately xml (but XHTML in the interim).

I don't want this to sound harsh or like I know better than anyone else 'cos that's not the case - it's just that I've been where you are now Cherie (building table-based websites for fun and then turning pro). I was lucky in that it was pointed out to me very early on that CSS was the way forward and I'm so glad that's the path I followed.

I suggest that you read through all those site links and get a general idea of what's going on in the web design world - see what the current thinking is.



petquarter -> RE: Father's Day gift - dad's new website! (6/25/2005 11:40:53)

Fantastic!!! I am so grateful for everyone's input.

I know this is what I want to do because when I started to read all of the articles and links you gave me, I was thrilled with a sense of "this is what I'm supposed to be doing" overcame me!

One thing that has helped me is that I always work in Frontpage with split screen, so I am used to working with html. I just haven't taken the time to memorize all of the coding.

I currently use Frontpage 2003 and Jasc Paint Shop Pro 9.

I have thought about getting Dreamweaver. What do you all think about this? When I read the other web design boards, they really bash FP, so I'm wondering if I should also try out DW. What are the pros and cons?

Are there any other software programs that might help? My husband is also learning with me. He enjoys using Pinnacle and MS Powerpoint.

Also, I went to Barnes and Noble a few days ago and I noticed a lot of magazines on web design, graphic imaging, etc. I wanted to pick one up, but wasn't sure which one. Can someone recommend a print subscription that may be helpful?

Thanks!



Tailslide -> RE: Father's Day gift - dad's new website! (6/25/2005 11:57:29)

Dreamweaver is very popular... and very expensive! A lot of Professionals use DW - but they also use HTML Editors or Notepad too. You may well find as you go along that you use more than one tool to get the job done.

I'd have to say that my own preference is for an HTML editor rather than WYSIWYG editors like FP and DW, but that's because I'm a control freak! - If I were you I'd look at the freebie HTML editors first - things like HTML-kit - See how you get on with those. If you hate them, then nothing lost! If you hate DW then it's an expensive mistake... Looking at the code in split screen is an excellent idea.

I'm glad you found those links as inspiring as I do.

I don't know about the US magazines, the magazines over here tend to be quite weak - they concentrate on Flash or DW or setting up an ebay-account! I think that the best resource is probably the web itself. Certainly the magazines that I read over here are well behind on some of the issues.



dpf -> RE: Father's Day gift - dad's new website! (6/25/2005 12:08:48)

quote:

MS Powerpoint
avoid powerpoint for any web related activities!
DW is an excellent product but not as intuitive as FP so its harder to learn. many buy it and give up. Frankly, I would advise you to stay on the path of using fp and looking at the code..meanwhile, get a basic html book and get a handel on all html. as for css, the easist and best way to get comfortable is to use if for styling fonts etc. I would stick with tables for layouts until you are comfortable with css styling - then move to css positioning. just my thoughts



weblaunch -> RE: Father's Day gift - dad's new website! (7/19/2005 0:45:01)

Very nice site...and a unique gift for dad...I never thought of making a website as a gift for someone. Thanks for sharing.



petquarter -> RE: Father's Day gift - dad's new website! (7/19/2005 1:47:03)

Thank you so much! It has been the greatest gift I have ever given him. I am working on his content now.

My husband designed the logo and we just put it up today. We were able to take an actual photo of my dad standing on his machine and imbed it into the actual background of the photo with some artistic effects. He loves it and I think it's really cool what he did with the "i".

I'm sure once I learn CSS, I'll want to redesign the whole site! I've been working with cell formatting and getting everything lined up correctly has been driving me batty.

Also, I really want to use a photo gallery to display his images. He wants to use lots of pictures of his jobs. I tried out the Frontpage gallery here, but my Dad is concerned that some people may not know how to scroll through the images. Of course I am not going to use this huge display for the photos. I had to because it was a magazine article. For his other images, he will likely have a subject with 6-8 photos for each. I just downloaded Jalbum today. Any suggestions on this would be greatly appreciated.




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