Stolen Content (Full Version)

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EInspector -> Stolen Content (8/10/2005 15:24:39)

Hi all,
I was wondering if someone could provide some guidance on copyright infringement. My website content (homepage and services pages) and custom graphic links [link=]here[/link] have been copied by a local competitor [link}here[/link]. He changed a few words here and there, but essentially its my content. I contacted the website designer and he said he can't shut down the site without the owner's consent. I spoke with the website owner who had a pretty laid-back "I don't see what the problem is" attitude. I told him I wanted my content and graphics removed right away, and he played dumb and said he had never even seen his new website and would have to investigate and call me back.... which he has not done! I am soooo livid about this! [:@] I have called 5 attorneys so far, and none of them handle "intellectual copyright" issues. Anyone know where I can go for help?? Any response would be greatly appreciated. I just don't want to lose my SE placement (#1 for most of my search terms) or be banned because of duplicate content. Nor do I want any of my customers to think I have any affiliation with such an unethical business.

Thanks,
Susie



Reflect -> RE: Stolen Content (8/10/2005 15:33:20)

I would send the web host a cease and desist notice. They will most likely respond much quicker.

All their information (host)...

http://www.topasites.com/contact_us.html

Take care,

Brian



Mojo -> RE: Stolen Content (8/10/2005 16:11:08)

If your positive that your copyrights would stand up in court you could file a DMCA complaint.

File it with the site host, Google, Yahoo, MSN and anyone else that promotes this site.

The odds are, if you don't file the DMCA with the site host - they will never know what hit them. The big 3 search engines may never even let him know his site was removed due to a DMCA complaint.



EInspector -> RE: Stolen Content (8/10/2005 17:04:32)

Thanks for the prompt responses.

I am pretty sure I can prove my content originality, as my site is on the "Way Back Machine"with the same content. Whereas the other offending site is shown on the Way Back Archive as being totally different (and amazingly with no decent content). I also have 2 older template versions of my site (with same text content) on my computer. I am hosting with OutFront and they ("T" & "B") created my semi-custom template, as well as copied my original content into the template at set-up. I don't know if the server stores old versions or not (I'm not at all knowlegable about that stuff). I also just found an old file (hard copy) where I had printed out the contents of my site almost 2 years ago (these are dated). I also have various copies of my graphic logos in different image editing programs.
I just can't understand how someone can be so blatant about stealing content down to the very word, especially someone who is known to me and who is probably 5 miles from my business. Also, would I send this complaint to their website designer (as linked at the bottom of their site) or to their ISP (from WhoIs search)?

Thanks again,
Susie



Mojo -> RE: Stolen Content (8/10/2005 18:09:06)

I'm not sure how strong WayBack is in a court of law. Many sites block the bot and not only are they not included in the WayBack index, but all old versions of the site are removed. It would be pretty easy to say the WayBack data in inaccurate.

That said, it would appear you have enough information to win - unless your competitor claims he can provide the same data and has officially registered copyrights on the content you claim is yours.

If you are serious about protecting copyrights you should register them. Just because you can't find something on the internet doesn't mean it hasn't been published offline - or registered.

quote:

Also, would I send this complaint to their website designer (as linked at the bottom of their site) or to their ISP (from WhoIs search)?


IANAL. C&D letter to the host or web designer or both. You mileage will vary with this letter and I have read that in some jurisdictions just sending the letter can allow the defendent to defend themselves in their location. Seeking legal help before sending the letter.

DMCA. Send a proper DMCA to the host and any place where you believe your copyrighted material is being distributed without your permission. Don't send a DMCA complaint to the designer as it doesn't relate to them.

Be prepared for retaliation. In my experience it is better to solve the problem before you hurt the offenders business. Even if they are copying your material there is likely no current damage and even if you were dropped from a search engine you would *never* be able to prove it was because of the duplicate copy. Collecting copyright damages, according to my understanding, is not easy nor does it produce much of a payout unless you can prove direct monetary damage/loss AND you have a registered copyright. Again, seek out legal advice. Back to retaliation.... Two can play the DMCA game and if he figures out you filed a DMCA and got him removed from many search engines he could simply file one against you. If he is half-way smart he will cover his identity and you will never be able to prove he did it. I have both filed DMCA complaints and have been struck by them and it can be a messy business where nobody wins.



EInspector -> RE: Stolen Content (8/10/2005 18:37:03)

Thanks Reflect and Mojo for the responses. I have been sitting at my computer researching intellectual copyright and see that I really should register the website content. The only issue with that is, every time you make a change on the site, you have to re-register (and repay)[:o] as far as I can tell. An attorney I have had dealings with is supposed to give me a recommendation for someone who specializes in copyright (since he does not), and I think that legal representation is warranted at this point. He (the attorney) was even shocked at the outright audacity of this company in simply copying and pasting my content as theirs. The funniest part is.... throughout my content I say how honest and ethical our company is, and they (the theives) stole the content including "we take extreme pride in our work and ethics...." and how "honest and ethical" they are [:D]. I'll update as things progress, and thanks again for the prompt responses!

Susie



dpf -> RE: Stolen Content (8/10/2005 20:18:55)

quote:

I contacted the website designer and he said he can't shut down the site without the owner's consent.
perhaps..just perhaps, the owner didnt steal yoursite -perhaps the hapless designer did. an owner paying money would want an original design wouldn't he/she? what are the odds that the owner knew how to pull down your code and then sent it to a designer? could have happened but i doubt it. on the other hand, maybe the owner said to the designer : I want my site to look like that one". Id put some pressure on the designer - after all, thats who wrote the code or used yours. just a thought



dpf -> RE: Stolen Content (8/10/2005 20:20:35)

where did you get the pics of the world trade center for your site? did you take them or purchase exclusive rights?



Nicole -> RE: Stolen Content (8/10/2005 23:32:01)

There are some pretty good articles on this site regarding Copyright.
Competition is Good, Copying is Not!
Regarding Copyright

Nicole



EInspector -> RE: Stolen Content (8/11/2005 0:56:29)

Hi all,

Thanks again for the responses to my post. As far as the website designer knowing about the "borrowed content", I don't think so. The reason is that I contacted him first, and he went online and viewed the websites with me and told me that that was against his "Terms of Service" and seemed genuinely disturbed. He then said he would have to contact his customer and inform him of the problem. One hour later I received a phone call from the website owner asking "what the problem was".... again, he played "dumb" [sm=whistling.gif] and told me he would look at the websites and call me back that same day, which he didn't . I have tried calling him, but with no response. I don't think the web designer would have called him if it was something he had done himself (he would have been trying to cover his own @ss one would think). However, now I can't get him to take my phone calls either. I think he has been put in the middle of this situation and is trying to figure out how to handle it. I will try to contact him again tomorrow.

As for my website template and the buildings depicted, I purchased it as a "semi-custom" template from OutFront... building graphics included. I don't know what buildings are shown (World Trade Center or not), but I have downloaded many free pictures of similar buildings from sites, including MicroSoft's site (I think the graphic in the corner of my template is a compilation of many photos of various buildings. There are many "free use" pictures of buildings out there).

Thanks Nicole for posting the link. Before I posted this thread, I had tried searching for "stolen content" and similar terms, but didn't get any hits. I then began just looking around the forum and found a few recent threads on similar situations (one recent and rather informative one in the "Hints and Tips" forum). I have learned a lot from the advice of other members [:)].

I am hopefully going to speak with the attorney tomorrow, and will continue to try and contact the site owner and site developer (documenting all such attempts). I would at least like to send out a formal Cease and Desist letter from the attorney... which will hopefully get their attention. I'll post back with updates.

Thanks again,
Susie



BobbyDouglas -> RE: Stolen Content (8/11/2005 13:58:03)

Susie,

You can get a lawyer to review your case here: http://forum.freeadvice.com/



EInspector -> RE: Stolen Content (8/11/2005 21:39:51)

Hi again,

Just thought I'd update on the situation. The site owner called me today and said that he was very angry with the web designer because he "paid good money for them to create a website, not steal someone elses". He told me he would take care of the matter. I then called the web designer and told him I still wanted the site taken down right away, and that I thought it was very unprofessional of them to place copyrighted content on websites they created. The site designer told me again that the site owner supplied all text and graphics. I then told him "that's not what the site owner said.... he said that your company provided all content". Well... the site designer was so upset that he asked to put me on speaker phone and asked me to repeat what the site owner told me (they were having a meeting). When I repeated the info, everyone in the meeting started laughing and said they really couldn't believe that this guy was making those statements about them. They told me the site owner was going into the office tomorrow for a meeting to decide how he wanted to proceed with a "legitimate" site, and that they would be addressing his accusations at that time. I told them all that I really didn't care who stole my content (that is between them and their client), but I wanted the site taken down NOW! They thanked me for my patience and apologized for the inconvenience and took the site offline before I hung up the phone!!! [sm=boogie.gif][sm=boogie.gif][sm=boogie.gif][sm=yupi3ti.gif][sm=yupi3ti.gif][sm=yupi3ti.gif] Thinking about it, wouldn't you demand an immediate refund of your money and not want to continue doing business with a company if they gave you a plagiarized site? In addition, I recognized some of the pictures from his old website, so he obviously supplied info to the developer. I tend to side with the website designer on this one.

I am curious as to what they will come up with for a website. I told them "don't even think about changing a few words around and calling it original content or you'll be hearing from my attorney!!!"

Thanks to all of you that posted responses! I'm just glad its over!!

Susie



BobbyDouglas -> RE: Stolen Content (8/12/2005 12:07:27)

Susie!

Great job. Looks like that person got caught pretty bad, and it sounds like it was the client. [:)]

Bummer for them. Luckily you were able to do this yourself, and did not have any out of pocket expenses.



EInspector -> RE: Stolen Content (8/12/2005 15:50:42)

I just wish I could be a "fly on the wall" for that meeting!!! lmao [sm=rotfl.gif] The guy is obviously a slime-ball, unethical and a liar. Great to see what wonderful competition we have out there!



Reflect -> RE: Stolen Content (8/15/2005 15:40:11)

quote:

I just wish I could be a "fly on the wall" for that meeting!!!


Why not request to be in it? I doubt that will happen though [8|].

However if in the same city turn this thing around and ask for possible lower end clients that they do not want (smaller money clients). This way you can have a nice feed of lower level work as an apology.

Just a thought.

Take care,

Brian



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